1
00:05:06,683 --> 00:05:09,852
A little white house...
2
00:05:10,061 --> 00:05:13,648
Lingers in my memory...
3
00:05:13,898 --> 00:05:16,985
Of that little white house...
4
00:05:17,318 --> 00:05:20,196
I dream each night...
5
00:05:20,780 --> 00:05:23,741
The windows of that little house...
6
00:05:23,992 --> 00:05:27,286
Beautifully shine in the sun...
7
00:05:27,662 --> 00:05:30,873
As if someone's eyes...
8
00:05:31,165 --> 00:05:34,002
Were filling with tears...
9
00:05:34,377 --> 00:05:38,006
There was so much happiness
in that little house...
10
00:05:38,256 --> 00:05:40,591
And so many joyous days...
11
00:05:40,842 --> 00:05:44,262
When I remember
those blissful moments...
12
00:05:44,345 --> 00:05:47,473
My heart trembles...
13
00:05:47,849 --> 00:05:51,269
A little white house...
14
00:05:51,477 --> 00:05:54,522
Lingers in my memory...
15
00:05:55,106 --> 00:05:58,276
Of that little white house...
16
00:05:58,609 --> 00:06:01,279
I dream each night...
17
00:06:08,953 --> 00:06:10,413
He was 13 1/2 years old.
18
00:06:10,496 --> 00:06:14,542
He had a lovely singing voice
and we heard him.
19
00:06:14,625 --> 00:06:17,170
A little white house...
20
00:06:17,253 --> 00:06:19,797
Lingers in my memory...
21
00:06:20,048 --> 00:06:22,383
Of that little white house...
22
00:06:22,633 --> 00:06:25,386
I dream each night...
23
00:06:25,636 --> 00:06:28,473
The windows of that little house...
24
00:06:28,681 --> 00:06:31,517
Beautifully shine in the sun...
25
00:06:31,768 --> 00:06:34,896
As if someone's eyes...
26
00:06:34,979 --> 00:06:38,608
Were filling with tears...
27
00:06:51,162 --> 00:06:53,664
When I heard him again,
my heart beat faster,
28
00:06:53,748 --> 00:06:57,210
because what happened
here... was a murder.
29
00:06:58,044 --> 00:07:00,922
I really relived what happened.
30
00:08:03,401 --> 00:08:08,573
It's hard to recognize, but it was here.
31
00:08:12,577 --> 00:08:14,620
They burned people here.
32
00:08:14,954 --> 00:08:17,623
A lot of people were burned here.
33
00:08:28,467 --> 00:08:30,887
Yes, this is the place.
34
00:09:07,465 --> 00:09:11,135
No one ever left here again.
35
00:09:18,726 --> 00:09:21,062
The gas vans came in here...
36
00:09:21,312 --> 00:09:23,940
There were two huge ovens,
37
00:09:27,151 --> 00:09:31,155
and afterward,
the bodies were thrown
38
00:09:33,407 --> 00:09:34,909
into these ovens,
39
00:09:34,992 --> 00:09:37,662
and the flames reached to the sky.
40
00:09:37,912 --> 00:09:39,538
To the sky?
41
00:09:44,585 --> 00:09:46,712
It was terrible.
42
00:09:57,723 --> 00:09:59,850
No one can describe it.
43
00:09:59,934 --> 00:10:02,270
No one can...
44
00:10:03,521 --> 00:10:07,650
recreate what happened here.
45
00:10:09,694 --> 00:10:12,446
Impossible!
And no one can understand it.
46
00:10:13,281 --> 00:10:15,992
Even I, here, now.
47
00:10:23,874 --> 00:10:26,294
I can't believe I'm here.
48
00:10:29,130 --> 00:10:31,924
No, I just can't believe it.
49
00:10:44,145 --> 00:10:46,939
It was always this peaceful here.
50
00:10:48,107 --> 00:10:54,113
When they burned 2,000 people...
Jews... every day,
51
00:10:54,363 --> 00:10:56,449
it was just as peaceful.
52
00:10:58,743 --> 00:11:02,538
No one shouted.
Everyone went about his work.
53
00:11:02,913 --> 00:11:05,041
It was silent. Peaceful.
54
00:11:05,791 --> 00:11:07,835
Just as it is now.
55
00:11:36,697 --> 00:11:40,409
You, girl, don't you cry.
56
00:11:40,493 --> 00:11:43,287
Don't be so sad.
57
00:11:43,621 --> 00:11:46,749
For the dear summer is nearing...
58
00:11:47,124 --> 00:11:49,043
and I'll return with it.
59
00:11:49,377 --> 00:11:52,630
A mug of red wine, a slice of roast,
60
00:11:52,713 --> 00:11:55,966
that's what the girls
give their soldiers.
61
00:12:03,307 --> 00:12:06,394
When the soldiers march along,
62
00:12:06,727 --> 00:12:09,980
the girls open their doors and windows.
63
00:12:22,243 --> 00:12:26,330
They thought the Germans
made him sing on the river.
64
00:12:30,543 --> 00:12:33,003
He was a toy to amuse them.
65
00:12:34,505 --> 00:12:36,507
He had to do it.
66
00:12:36,841 --> 00:12:39,301
He sang, but his heart wept.
67
00:12:44,056 --> 00:12:47,435
Do their hearts weep
thinking about that now?
68
00:12:48,686 --> 00:12:50,229
Certainly, very much so.
69
00:12:57,194 --> 00:13:00,448
They still talk about it
around the family table.
70
00:13:03,409 --> 00:13:06,162
It was public, so everyone knew of it.
71
00:13:11,876 --> 00:13:15,212
He said that was true German irony,
72
00:13:18,090 --> 00:13:20,759
people were being killed,
and he had to sing.
73
00:13:22,428 --> 00:13:24,555
That's what I thought.
74
00:13:27,558 --> 00:13:30,311
What died in him in Chelmno?
75
00:13:39,653 --> 00:13:41,155
Everything died.
76
00:13:41,238 --> 00:13:44,241
But he's only human,
and he wants to live.
77
00:13:44,325 --> 00:13:46,660
So he must forget.
78
00:13:47,995 --> 00:13:51,707
__ The other survivor:
MICHAEL PODCHLEBNIK - ISRAEL
79
00:14:07,973 --> 00:14:12,520
He thanks God for what remains
and that he can forget.
80
00:14:12,603 --> 00:14:14,647
And let's not talk about that.
81
00:14:17,858 --> 00:14:20,402
Does he think it's good
to talk about it?
82
00:14:27,535 --> 00:14:29,787
For me it's not good.
83
00:14:34,458 --> 00:14:36,961
Then why is he talking about it?
84
00:14:53,143 --> 00:14:56,272
Because you're insisting on it.
85
00:14:56,480 --> 00:15:01,318
He was sent books on the Eichmann trial,
where he was a witness,
86
00:15:01,527 --> 00:15:03,988
and he didn't even read them.
87
00:15:09,493 --> 00:15:12,538
He survived,
but is he really alive, or...?
88
00:15:37,646 --> 00:15:40,816
At the time, he felt as if he were dead,
89
00:15:40,899 --> 00:15:43,819
because he never thought he'd survive,
90
00:15:44,194 --> 00:15:47,031
but... he's alive.
91
00:15:51,785 --> 00:15:54,330
Why does he smile all the time?
92
00:16:03,922 --> 00:16:05,924
What do you want him to do... cry?
93
00:16:06,258 --> 00:16:08,260
Sometimes you smile, sometimes you cry.
94
00:16:10,220 --> 00:16:12,848
And if you're alive,
it's better to smile.
95
00:16:17,394 --> 00:16:21,857
Why was she so curious about this story?
96
00:16:22,232 --> 00:16:25,569
HAN NA ZATDL
- ISRAEL -
97
00:16:25,903 --> 00:16:29,990
Daughter of Motke Za'l'dl,
survivor of Vilna (Lithuania)
98
00:17:08,946 --> 00:17:10,614
It's a long story.
99
00:17:10,698 --> 00:17:15,285
As a child,
I had little contact with my father.
100
00:17:15,369 --> 00:17:18,956
He went out to work,
and I didn't see much of him.
101
00:17:19,039 --> 00:17:22,668
Besides, he was a silent man,
he didn 7 talk to me.
102
00:17:22,751 --> 00:17:27,214
And when I grew up
and was strong enough to face him,
103
00:17:27,297 --> 00:17:30,926
I questioned him.
I never stopped questioning him
104
00:17:31,009 --> 00:17:35,222
until I got at the scraps of truth
he couldn't tell me.
105
00:17:35,305 --> 00:17:38,767
It came out haltingly.
106
00:17:39,143 --> 00:17:41,228
I had to tear the details out of him,
107
00:17:41,311 --> 00:17:46,859
and finally, when Mr. Lanzmann came,
108
00:17:47,192 --> 00:17:51,905
I heard the whole story
for the second time.
109
00:17:51,989 --> 00:17:53,574
M OTKE ZATD L
110
00:17:55,492 --> 00:17:59,621
BEN SHEMEN FOREST (ISRAEL)
111
00:18:20,517 --> 00:18:24,772
The place resembles Ponary:
the forest, the ditches.
112
00:18:24,855 --> 00:18:27,858
It's as if the bodies were burned here.
113
00:18:28,066 --> 00:18:30,986
Except there were no stones in Ponary.
114
00:18:32,112 --> 00:18:35,908
Ponary: forest where most
of the Vilna Jews were massacred
115
00:18:36,158 --> 00:18:37,993
But the Lithuanian forests
116
00:18:38,076 --> 00:18:41,330
are denser than the Israeli forest, no?
117
00:18:46,710 --> 00:18:48,212
Of course.
118
00:18:54,051 --> 00:18:58,180
The trees are similar,
but taller and fuller in Lithuania.
119
00:18:59,223 --> 00:19:03,393
FOREST OF THE EXTERMINATION CAMP
AT SOBIBOR (POLAND)
120
00:19:03,727 --> 00:19:07,231
ls there still hunting
here in Sobibor forest?
121
00:19:20,911 --> 00:19:24,998
Yes, there are lots of animals
of all kinds.
122
00:19:28,001 --> 00:19:29,503
Was there hunting then?
123
00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:38,637
Only man hunting.
124
00:19:40,264 --> 00:19:41,974
JAN PIWONSKI
125
00:19:59,408 --> 00:20:01,660
Some victims tried to escape.
126
00:20:07,708 --> 00:20:10,460
But they didn't know the area.
127
00:20:15,132 --> 00:20:19,928
At times people heard explosions
in the minefield.
128
00:20:20,012 --> 00:20:22,764
Sometimes they'd find a deer
129
00:20:22,848 --> 00:20:26,351
and sometimes a poor Jew
who tried to escape.
130
00:20:50,042 --> 00:20:53,754
That's the charm of our forests:
silence and beauty.
131
00:21:08,268 --> 00:21:11,563
But it wasn't always so silent here.
132
00:21:21,782 --> 00:21:26,203
There was a time
when it was full of screams
133
00:21:26,286 --> 00:21:27,788
and gunshots,
134
00:21:30,248 --> 00:21:31,750
of dogs' barking.
135
00:21:43,762 --> 00:21:46,682
And that period especially
136
00:21:46,765 --> 00:21:49,476
is engraved on the minds of the people
137
00:21:49,559 --> 00:21:52,062
who lived here then.
138
00:22:03,907 --> 00:22:09,037
After the revolt, the Germans
decided to liquidate the camp,
139
00:22:09,121 --> 00:22:11,498
and early in the winter of 1943,
140
00:22:11,581 --> 00:22:15,544
they planted pines
that were three or four years old
141
00:22:15,627 --> 00:22:17,796
to camouflage all the traces.
142
00:22:17,879 --> 00:22:19,381
That screen of trees?
143
00:22:20,007 --> 00:22:20,674
Yes.
144
00:22:20,757 --> 00:22:22,926
That's where the mass graves were?
145
00:22:41,028 --> 00:22:44,239
When he first came here in 1944,
146
00:22:44,322 --> 00:22:48,201
you couldn't guess
what had happened here,
147
00:22:48,285 --> 00:22:53,123
that these trees were hiding
the secret of a death camp.
148
00:22:57,169 --> 00:23:00,922
How did he react,
the first time he unloaded corpses,
149
00:23:01,006 --> 00:23:03,842
when the gas van doors were opened?
150
00:23:17,564 --> 00:23:20,150
What could he do? He cried.
151
00:23:28,825 --> 00:23:31,953
The 3rd day,
he saw his wife and children.
152
00:23:52,974 --> 00:23:56,728
He placed his wife
in the grave and asked to be killed.
153
00:23:56,812 --> 00:23:59,731
The Germans said
he was strong enough to work,
154
00:23:59,815 --> 00:24:02,234
that he wouldn't be killed yet.
155
00:24:19,709 --> 00:24:21,795
Was the weather very cold?
156
00:24:30,929 --> 00:24:36,059
It was in the winter of 1942,
in early January.
157
00:24:39,646 --> 00:24:43,358
At that time, the bodies
weren't burned, just buried?
158
00:25:10,635 --> 00:25:14,890
No, they were buried,
and each row was covered with dirt.
159
00:25:14,973 --> 00:25:17,017
They weren't being burned yet.
160
00:25:17,100 --> 00:25:19,394
There were around four or five layers.
161
00:25:19,477 --> 00:25:22,314
The ditches were funnel-shaped.
162
00:25:31,156 --> 00:25:34,409
They dumped the bodies
in these ditches,
163
00:25:34,492 --> 00:25:38,580
and they had to lay them out
like herrings, head to foot.
164
00:25:49,090 --> 00:25:54,137
So it was they who dug up
and burned all the Jews of Vilna?
165
00:25:55,347 --> 00:25:56,556
Yes.
166
00:26:01,269 --> 00:26:04,898
In early January 1944,
we began digging up the bodies.
167
00:26:16,993 --> 00:26:19,829
When the last mass grave was opened,
168
00:26:20,330 --> 00:26:22,582
I recognized my whole family.
169
00:26:25,627 --> 00:26:28,672
Whom in his family did he recognize?
170
00:26:40,183 --> 00:26:43,395
Mom and my sisters.
3 sisters with their kids.
171
00:26:43,478 --> 00:26:45,730
They were all in there.
172
00:26:46,231 --> 00:26:48,566
How could he recognize them?
173
00:26:50,860 --> 00:26:53,405
ITZHAK DUGIN:
Survivor of Vilna
174
00:27:15,677 --> 00:27:18,513
They'd been in the earth 4 months,
175
00:27:18,596 --> 00:27:20,974
and it was winter.
176
00:27:21,057 --> 00:27:22,892
They were very well preserved.
177
00:27:22,976 --> 00:27:26,771
I recognized their faces,
their clothes too.
178
00:27:27,939 --> 00:27:31,067
They'd been killed relatively recently?
179
00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:43,204
And it was the last grave?
180
00:27:50,211 --> 00:27:54,090
The Nazi plan was for them
to open the graves
181
00:27:54,174 --> 00:27:55,884
starting with the oldest?
182
00:28:41,137 --> 00:28:44,140
The last graves were the newest,
183
00:28:44,224 --> 00:28:48,937
and we started with the oldest,
those of the first ghetto.
184
00:28:49,020 --> 00:28:51,981
In the first grave,
there were 24,000 bodies.
185
00:29:04,411 --> 00:29:08,540
The deeper you dug,
the flatter the bodies were.
186
00:29:08,623 --> 00:29:11,292
Each was almost a flat slab.
187
00:29:15,588 --> 00:29:19,342
When you tried to grasp a body,
it crumbled,
188
00:29:19,426 --> 00:29:21,678
it was impossible to pick them up.
189
00:29:29,978 --> 00:29:34,399
We had to open the graves,
but without tools.
190
00:29:34,482 --> 00:29:38,236
They said, “Get used to working
with your hands.”
191
00:29:38,319 --> 00:29:40,905
With just their hands?
192
00:30:04,679 --> 00:30:06,931
When we first opened the graves,
193
00:30:07,015 --> 00:30:10,477
we couldn't help it,
we all burst out sobbing.
194
00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:15,315
But the Germans almost beat us to death.
195
00:30:15,398 --> 00:30:19,194
We had to work
at a killing pace for two days,
196
00:30:19,277 --> 00:30:22,030
beaten all the time, and with no tools.
197
00:30:23,740 --> 00:30:25,950
They all burst out sobbing?
198
00:30:48,598 --> 00:30:51,059
The Germans even forbade us
199
00:30:51,142 --> 00:30:54,687
to use the words “corpse ” or “victim. ”
200
00:30:54,771 --> 00:30:58,483
The dead were blocks of wood, shit,
201
00:30:58,566 --> 00:31:01,611
with absolutely no importance...
202
00:31:08,660 --> 00:31:12,288
Anyone who said “corpse”
or “victim” was beaten.
203
00:31:18,545 --> 00:31:23,633
The Germans made us
refer to the bodies as “F (guren, ”
204
00:31:23,716 --> 00:31:26,553
that is, as puppets, as dolls,
205
00:31:27,804 --> 00:31:29,931
or as “Schmattes,”
which means “rags.”
206
00:31:32,684 --> 00:31:34,727
Were they told at the start
207
00:31:34,811 --> 00:31:38,439
how many “Figuren”
there were in all the graves?
208
00:31:53,538 --> 00:31:56,499
The head of the Vilna Gestapo told us,
209
00:31:56,583 --> 00:32:00,211
“There are 90,000 people lying there,
210
00:32:00,295 --> 00:32:03,339
and absolutely no trace
must be left of them.”
211
00:32:10,388 --> 00:32:14,267
It was at the end of November 1942.
212
00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:21,065
They chased us away from our work
213
00:32:22,567 --> 00:32:25,361
and back to our barracks.
214
00:32:25,445 --> 00:32:27,363
Suddenly,
215
00:32:28,906 --> 00:32:36,331
from the part of the camp called
216
00:32:37,457 --> 00:32:42,086
the death camp,
217
00:32:44,213 --> 00:32:46,382
flames shot up very high.
218
00:32:50,428 --> 00:32:54,307
In a flash, the whole countryside,
219
00:32:54,390 --> 00:32:58,227
the whole camp seemed ablaze.
220
00:33:00,938 --> 00:33:02,857
It was already dark.
221
00:33:07,779 --> 00:33:10,114
We went into our barracks
222
00:33:11,866 --> 00:33:13,951
and ate...
223
00:33:14,452 --> 00:33:19,332
And from the window,
224
00:33:19,582 --> 00:33:25,421
we kept on watching
the fantastic backdrop of flames
225
00:33:25,505 --> 00:33:28,007
of every imaginable color,
226
00:33:29,258 --> 00:33:32,887
red, yellow, green, purple.
227
00:33:33,096 --> 00:33:41,312
And suddenly one of us stood up.
228
00:33:42,105 --> 00:33:48,319
We knew he'd been
an opera singer in Warsaw.
229
00:33:50,279 --> 00:33:54,659
His name was Salve, and...
230
00:33:59,163 --> 00:34:03,126
facing that curtain of fire,
231
00:34:03,209 --> 00:34:07,463
he began chanting a song
232
00:34:07,547 --> 00:34:11,050
I didn't know:
233
00:34:11,926 --> 00:34:13,720
“My God, my God,
234
00:34:15,471 --> 00:34:17,974
why hast Thou forsaken us?”
235
00:34:18,391 --> 00:34:22,478
RICHARD GLAZAR -
BASEL (SWITZERLAND)
236
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:29,068
“We have been thrust
into the fire before,
237
00:34:29,485 --> 00:34:34,991
but we he ve ne ver denied
Thy Holy L a w. ”
238
00:34:36,743 --> 00:34:40,371
He sang in Yiddish,
239
00:34:40,455 --> 00:34:42,832
while, behind him,
240
00:34:42,915 --> 00:34:47,962
blazed the pyres
241
00:34:48,671 --> 00:34:55,052
on which they had begun
then, in November 1942,
242
00:34:55,136 --> 00:34:58,264
to burn the bodies in Treblinka.
243
00:34:59,974 --> 00:35:04,979
That was the first time it happened.
244
00:35:06,522 --> 00:35:08,483
We knew that night
245
00:35:08,566 --> 00:35:12,779
that the dead would no longer be buried,
246
00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:16,282
they'd be burned.
247
00:35:16,783 --> 00:35:19,452
TREBLINKA
248
00:35:45,853 --> 00:35:50,566
When things were ready,
they poured on fuel
249
00:35:50,650 --> 00:35:52,568
and touched off the fire.
250
00:35:52,819 --> 00:35:55,196
They waited for a high wind.
251
00:35:55,279 --> 00:35:59,200
The pyres usually burned
for 7 or 8 days.
252
00:36:06,666 --> 00:36:10,878
There was a concrete platform
some distance away,
253
00:36:12,088 --> 00:36:15,132
and the bones that hadn't burned,
254
00:36:15,216 --> 00:36:17,885
the big bones of the feet, for example,
255
00:36:17,969 --> 00:36:20,388
we took...
256
00:36:21,556 --> 00:36:25,101
There was a chest with two handles.
257
00:36:25,184 --> 00:36:28,187
We carried the bones there,
258
00:36:28,271 --> 00:36:34,485
where others had to crush them.
259
00:36:34,569 --> 00:36:37,321
It was very fine,
260
00:36:38,573 --> 00:36:41,409
that powdered bone.
261
00:36:41,492 --> 00:36:44,745
Then it was put into sacks,
262
00:36:45,580 --> 00:36:49,792
and when there were enough sacks,
263
00:36:49,876 --> 00:36:54,672
we went to a bridge on the Narew river
264
00:36:54,964 --> 00:36:57,508
and dumped the powder.
265
00:36:57,592 --> 00:36:59,385
The current carried it off.
266
00:37:01,804 --> 00:37:04,265
It drifted downstream.
267
00:38:38,442 --> 00:38:42,530
PAULA BIREN - CINCINNATI U.S.A.
survivor of Auschwitz
268
00:38:49,620 --> 00:38:53,416
THE JEWISH CEMETERY
IN LODZ TODAY
269
00:39:25,948 --> 00:39:28,284
AUSCHWITZ: THE TOWN
270
00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:32,830
Mrs. Pietryra, you live in Auschwitz?
271
00:39:36,584 --> 00:39:38,169
Yes, I was born here.
272
00:39:38,252 --> 00:39:40,504
And you've never left Auschwitz?
273
00:39:42,631 --> 00:39:44,258
No, never.
274
00:39:44,341 --> 00:39:47,303
Were there Jews in Auschwitz
before the war?
275
00:39:52,975 --> 00:39:55,561
They made up 80% of the population.
276
00:39:59,815 --> 00:40:01,984
They even had a synagogue here.
277
00:40:02,068 --> 00:40:03,069
Just one?
278
00:40:05,988 --> 00:40:06,947
Just one, I think.
279
00:40:07,031 --> 00:40:08,532
Does it still exist?
280
00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:15,081
No, it was wrecked.
281
00:40:15,164 --> 00:40:17,625
There's something else there now.
282
00:40:17,708 --> 00:40:20,127
Was there a Jewish cemetery
in Auschwitz?
283
00:40:26,550 --> 00:40:30,429
It still exists. it's closed now.
284
00:40:30,513 --> 00:40:32,807
- It still exists?
- Yes.
285
00:40:37,520 --> 00:40:39,313
Closed? What does that mean?
286
00:40:42,483 --> 00:40:44,985
They don't bury there now.
287
00:41:05,172 --> 00:41:07,383
Was there a synagogue in Wlodawa?
288
00:41:10,845 --> 00:41:13,347
Yes, and it's very beautiful.
289
00:41:18,185 --> 00:41:21,147
When Poland was ruled by the czars,
290
00:41:21,230 --> 00:41:23,816
that synagogue already existed.
291
00:41:26,485 --> 00:41:30,156
It's even older than the Catholic church.
292
00:42:00,853 --> 00:42:02,438
It's no longer used.
293
00:42:04,607 --> 00:42:06,567
There's no one to go to it.
294
00:42:13,949 --> 00:42:17,536
These buildings haven't changed?
295
00:42:22,791 --> 00:42:26,337
Not at all.
There were barrels of herrings here,
296
00:42:26,420 --> 00:42:28,130
and the Jews sold fish.
297
00:42:30,007 --> 00:42:32,885
There were stalls, small shops,
298
00:42:32,968 --> 00:42:35,930
Jewish business, as the gentleman says.
299
00:42:39,975 --> 00:42:41,644
That's Barenholz's house.
300
00:42:43,312 --> 00:42:45,147
He sold wood.
301
00:42:50,819 --> 00:42:53,864
Lipschitz's store was there.
He sold cloth.
302
00:42:54,907 --> 00:42:56,784
This was Lichtenstein's.
303
00:42:56,867 --> 00:42:58,869
What was there, opposite?
304
00:43:01,622 --> 00:43:03,749
A food store.
305
00:43:03,832 --> 00:43:05,668
A Jewish store?
306
00:43:09,797 --> 00:43:12,091
There was a notions shop here,
307
00:43:12,174 --> 00:43:15,844
it sold thread, needles, odds and ends,
308
00:43:19,181 --> 00:43:21,684
and there were also three barbers.
309
00:43:22,851 --> 00:43:25,271
PAN FILIPOWICZ
310
00:43:26,188 --> 00:43:29,608
- Was that fine house Jewish?
- It's Jewish.
311
00:43:29,692 --> 00:43:32,695
- And this small one?
- Also.
312
00:43:32,778 --> 00:43:34,280
And the one behind it?
313
00:43:35,489 --> 00:43:36,949
These were all Jewish.
314
00:43:37,032 --> 00:43:38,784
This one on the left, too?
315
00:43:41,036 --> 00:43:42,037
That one too.
316
00:43:44,081 --> 00:43:46,041
Who lived in it? Borenstein?
317
00:43:48,419 --> 00:43:51,630
He was in the cement business.
318
00:43:51,714 --> 00:43:54,258
He was very handsome, and cultivated.
319
00:43:58,178 --> 00:44:01,390
Here there was a blacksmith
named Tepper.
320
00:44:01,890 --> 00:44:03,559
It was a Jewish house.
321
00:44:04,685 --> 00:44:06,562
A shoemaker lived here.
322
00:44:06,645 --> 00:44:08,731
What was his name?
323
00:44:10,065 --> 00:44:12,151
- Yankel?
- Yes.
324
00:44:12,568 --> 00:44:16,071
You get the feeling Wlodawa
was a Jewish city.
325
00:44:20,617 --> 00:44:22,202
Yes, because it's true.
326
00:44:23,078 --> 00:44:27,082
The Poles lived farther out,
the center was wholly Jewish.
327
00:44:28,959 --> 00:44:31,337
What happened to the Jews of Auschwitz?
328
00:44:37,551 --> 00:44:40,679
They were expelled and resettled,
329
00:44:40,763 --> 00:44:42,848
but I don't know where.
330
00:44:42,931 --> 00:44:44,767
What year was that?
331
00:44:48,312 --> 00:44:53,525
It began in 1940,
which was when I moved here.
332
00:44:53,609 --> 00:44:56,070
This apartment also belonged to Jews.
333
00:44:56,904 --> 00:45:00,532
According to our information,
334
00:45:00,616 --> 00:45:05,037
the Auschwitz Jews
were “resettled,” as they say,
335
00:45:05,120 --> 00:45:09,541
nearby, in Benzin
and Sosnowiec, in Upper Silesia.
336
00:45:12,002 --> 00:45:14,671
Yes, because those were Jewish towns.
337
00:45:14,755 --> 00:45:19,551
Does she know what happened
to the Jews of Auschwitz?
338
00:45:25,099 --> 00:45:28,102
I think they all ended up in the camp.
339
00:45:28,185 --> 00:45:30,229
That is, they returned to Auschwitz?
340
00:45:35,442 --> 00:45:39,488
AUSCHWITZ - BIRKENAU
341
00:45:52,376 --> 00:45:57,714
All kinds of people from everywhere
were sent here.
342
00:45:58,882 --> 00:46:01,677
All the Jews came here... to die.
343
00:46:10,060 --> 00:46:14,731
What did they think when Wlodawa's
Jews were all deported to Sobibor?
344
00:46:15,524 --> 00:46:19,611
Wlodawa - Sobibor: 10 miles
345
00:46:28,537 --> 00:46:30,789
What could we think?
346
00:46:30,873 --> 00:46:36,753
That it was the end of them,
but they had foreseen that.
347
00:46:36,837 --> 00:46:38,380
How so?
348
00:46:54,855 --> 00:46:58,025
Even before the war,
when you talked to the Jews,
349
00:46:58,108 --> 00:46:59,943
they foresaw their doom.
350
00:47:00,027 --> 00:47:01,487
He doesn't know how.
351
00:47:01,570 --> 00:47:04,406
Even before the war,
they had a premonition.
352
00:47:14,708 --> 00:47:17,252
How were they taken to Sobibor? On foot?
353
00:47:23,800 --> 00:47:26,637
It was frightful. He watched it himself.
354
00:47:30,432 --> 00:47:34,770
They were herded on foot
to a station called Orkrobek.
355
00:47:43,737 --> 00:47:49,785
There, they put the old people first
into waiting cattle cars,
356
00:47:52,955 --> 00:47:55,040
then the younger Jews,
357
00:47:58,794 --> 00:48:01,046
and finally the kids.
358
00:48:01,129 --> 00:48:05,842
That was the worst:
They threw them on top of the others.
359
00:48:43,005 --> 00:48:45,090
Were there a lot of Jews in Kolo?
360
00:48:48,552 --> 00:48:49,886
A great many.
361
00:48:51,471 --> 00:48:53,515
More Jews than Poles.
362
00:48:54,516 --> 00:48:57,519
And what happened to the Kolo Jews?
363
00:48:57,603 --> 00:48:59,521
Was he an eyewitness?
364
00:49:00,647 --> 00:49:04,067
PAN FALBORSKI
365
00:49:05,193 --> 00:49:07,404
Yes. It was frightful.
366
00:49:24,004 --> 00:49:25,172
Frightful to see.
367
00:49:25,255 --> 00:49:28,133
Even the Germans hid,
they couldn't see that.
368
00:49:28,216 --> 00:49:32,638
When the Jews were herded
to the station, they were beaten,
369
00:49:32,721 --> 00:49:34,181
some were even killed.
370
00:49:34,264 --> 00:49:39,811
A cart followed the convoy
to pick up the corpses.
371
00:49:40,228 --> 00:49:44,900
- Those who couldn't walk, the slain?
- Yes, those who'd fallen.
372
00:49:44,983 --> 00:49:47,069
Where did this happen?
373
00:50:07,589 --> 00:50:12,177
The Jews were collected
in the Kolo synagogue.
374
00:50:12,260 --> 00:50:15,514
Then they were herded to the station,
375
00:50:15,597 --> 00:50:19,643
where the narrow-gauge rail road
went to Chelmno.
376
00:50:28,068 --> 00:50:32,114
It happened to all the Jews
in the area, not just in Kolo?
377
00:50:39,621 --> 00:50:41,123
Absolutely.
378
00:50:41,957 --> 00:50:43,500
Everywhere.
379
00:50:48,088 --> 00:50:50,716
Jews were also murdered
in the forests
380
00:50:50,799 --> 00:50:53,301
near Kalisz, not far from here.
381
00:53:20,615 --> 00:53:24,703
ABRAHAM BOMBA - TEL AVIV, ISRAEL,
survivor of Treblinka
382
00:53:53,189 --> 00:53:57,235
TREBLINKA BY ROAD
383
00:55:54,227 --> 00:55:55,729
He was born here
384
00:55:57,313 --> 00:55:58,940
in 1923
385
00:55:59,566 --> 00:56:01,484
and has been here even since.
386
00:56:03,820 --> 00:56:05,697
He lived at this very spot?
387
00:56:05,989 --> 00:56:07,490
Right here.
388
00:56:07,574 --> 00:56:11,244
Then he had a front-row seat
for what happened.
389
00:56:17,125 --> 00:56:18,626
Naturally.
390
00:56:21,337 --> 00:56:26,051
You could go up close
or watch from a distance.
391
00:56:27,010 --> 00:56:30,055
CZESLAW BOROWI
392
00:56:33,933 --> 00:56:36,936
They had land
on the far side of the station.
393
00:56:37,020 --> 00:56:40,398
To work it, he had to cross the track,
394
00:56:40,482 --> 00:56:42,484
so he could see everything.
395
00:56:47,655 --> 00:56:52,577
Does he remember
the first convoy of Jews from Warsaw
396
00:56:52,660 --> 00:56:55,288
on July 22, 1942?
397
00:56:58,792 --> 00:56:59,918
Yes.
398
00:57:03,838 --> 00:57:06,341
He recalls the first convoy very well,
399
00:57:07,884 --> 00:57:10,762
and when all those Jews
were brought here,
400
00:57:15,350 --> 00:57:19,354
people wondered,
“What's to be done with them?”
401
00:57:21,940 --> 00:57:26,027
Clearly, they'd be killed,
but no one yet knew how.
402
00:57:38,081 --> 00:57:42,544
When people began
to understand what was happening,
403
00:57:43,086 --> 00:57:44,587
they were appalled,
404
00:57:44,671 --> 00:57:49,843
and they commented privately
that since the world began,
405
00:57:49,926 --> 00:57:53,555
no one had ever murdered
so many people that way.
406
00:57:59,060 --> 00:58:02,480
While all this was happening
before their eyes,
407
00:58:02,564 --> 00:58:04,065
normal life went on?
408
00:58:04,149 --> 00:58:05,859
They worked their fields?
409
00:58:29,299 --> 00:58:31,092
Certainly they worked,
410
00:58:31,176 --> 00:58:35,930
but not as willingly as usual.
411
00:58:36,598 --> 00:58:38,516
They had to work,
412
00:58:38,600 --> 00:58:41,186
but when they saw all this,
they thought,
413
00:58:41,269 --> 00:58:44,689
“What if our house is surrounded
and we're arrested?”
414
00:58:47,442 --> 00:58:49,777
Were they afraid for the Jews, too?
415
00:59:21,809 --> 00:59:23,728
Well, he says it's this way:
416
00:59:23,811 --> 00:59:28,399
If I cut my finger, it doesn't hurt him.
417
00:59:28,483 --> 00:59:30,818
They saw what happened to the Jews:
418
00:59:30,902 --> 00:59:35,531
The convoy came in
and then went to the camp,
419
00:59:36,282 --> 00:59:38,576
and the people vanished.
420
00:59:40,995 --> 00:59:46,334
He had a field
less than 100 yards from the camp.
421
00:59:48,002 --> 00:59:50,797
He also worked
during the German occupation.
422
00:59:50,880 --> 00:59:53,299
- He worked his field?
- Yes.
423
00:59:55,009 --> 00:59:58,513
He saw how they were asphyxiated,
424
00:59:58,596 --> 01:00:01,933
he heard them scream, he saw that.
425
01:00:02,016 --> 01:00:06,521
There's a small hill:
He could see quite a bit.
426
01:00:08,856 --> 01:00:10,525
What did he say?
427
01:00:14,570 --> 01:00:17,282
They couldn't stop and watch.
428
01:00:17,782 --> 01:00:20,785
It was forbidden.
The Ukrainians shot at them.
429
01:00:20,868 --> 01:00:25,707
But they could work a field
100 yards from the camp?
430
01:00:26,874 --> 01:00:29,919
They could.
431
01:00:31,170 --> 01:00:33,339
So occasionally he could steal a glance,
432
01:00:33,423 --> 01:00:35,675
if the Ukrainians weren't looking.
433
01:00:35,758 --> 01:00:37,802
He worked with his eyes lowered?
434
01:00:41,431 --> 01:00:42,724
Yes.
435
01:00:47,228 --> 01:00:51,065
He worked by the barbed wire
and heard awful screams.
436
01:00:51,149 --> 01:00:52,942
His field was there?
437
01:00:55,028 --> 01:00:56,904
Yes, right up close.
438
01:00:58,072 --> 01:01:00,491
It wasn't forbidden to work there.
439
01:01:01,451 --> 01:01:03,244
So he worked, he farmed there?
440
01:01:08,541 --> 01:01:09,792
Yes.
441
01:01:10,752 --> 01:01:14,964
Where the camp is now
was partly his field.
442
01:01:27,101 --> 01:01:30,021
It was off limits,
but they heard everything.
443
01:01:30,104 --> 01:01:33,358
It didn't bother him to work
so near those screams?
444
01:01:42,450 --> 01:01:45,995
At first it was unbearable.
Then you got used to it.
445
01:01:46,454 --> 01:01:48,289
You get used to anything?
446
01:01:52,126 --> 01:01:53,419
Yes.
447
01:01:56,506 --> 01:02:00,218
Now he thinks... it's impossible.
448
01:02:00,301 --> 01:02:01,969
Yet it was true.
449
01:02:30,832 --> 01:02:33,668
So he saw the convoys arriving.
450
01:02:34,168 --> 01:02:38,381
There were 60 to 80 cars
in each convoy,
451
01:02:38,673 --> 01:02:41,509
and there were two locomotives
452
01:02:41,592 --> 01:02:45,430
that took the convoys into the camp,
453
01:02:45,513 --> 01:02:49,475
taking 20 cars at a time.
454
01:02:50,351 --> 01:02:52,854
And the cars came back empty?
455
01:02:55,481 --> 01:02:57,692
- Yes.
- Does he remember...?
456
01:03:02,864 --> 01:03:04,407
Here's how it happened:
457
01:03:04,699 --> 01:03:07,201
The locomotive picked up 20 cars
458
01:03:08,911 --> 01:03:10,872
and took them to the camp.
459
01:03:11,205 --> 01:03:14,709
That took maybe an hour,
460
01:03:20,631 --> 01:03:22,717
and the empty cars came back here.
461
01:03:22,800 --> 01:03:24,927
Then the next 20 cars were taken,
462
01:03:25,011 --> 01:03:29,557
and meanwhile, the people
in the first 20 were already dead.
463
01:03:43,196 --> 01:03:45,072
They waited, they wept,
464
01:03:46,407 --> 01:03:49,243
they asked for water, they died.
465
01:03:51,287 --> 01:03:57,376
Sometimes they were naked
in the cars, up to 170 people.
466
01:03:59,921 --> 01:04:02,340
This is where they gave
the Jews water, he says.
467
01:04:02,423 --> 01:04:04,425
Where was that?
468
01:04:06,177 --> 01:04:10,681
Here. When the convoys arrived,
they gave water to the Jews.
469
01:04:10,765 --> 01:04:12,600
Who gave the Jews water?
470
01:04:14,769 --> 01:04:16,771
We did, the Poles.
471
01:04:18,022 --> 01:04:22,193
There was a tiny well,
we took a bottle and...
472
01:04:22,276 --> 01:04:24,654
Wasn't it dangerous to give them water?
473
01:04:26,948 --> 01:04:28,574
Very dangerous.
474
01:04:33,204 --> 01:04:38,376
You could be killed
for giving a glass of water.
475
01:04:38,459 --> 01:04:41,420
But we gave them water anyway.
476
01:04:46,133 --> 01:04:48,302
Is it very cold here in winter?
477
01:04:51,514 --> 01:04:52,848
It depends.
478
01:04:55,601 --> 01:04:58,104
It can get to minus 15, minus 20.
479
01:05:01,315 --> 01:05:04,735
Which was harder on the Jews,
summer or winter?
480
01:05:04,819 --> 01:05:06,612
Waiting here, I mean.
481
01:05:16,163 --> 01:05:19,208
He thinks winter,
because they were very cold.
482
01:05:23,754 --> 01:05:28,467
They were so packed in the cars,
maybe they weren't cold.
483
01:05:30,970 --> 01:05:34,181
In summer they stifled: It was very hot.
484
01:05:35,182 --> 01:05:38,185
The Jews were very thirsty.
They tried to get out.
485
01:05:42,690 --> 01:05:46,027
Were there corpses
in the cars on arrival?
486
01:05:52,950 --> 01:05:54,452
Obviously.
487
01:06:08,132 --> 01:06:09,634
They were so packed in
488
01:06:09,717 --> 01:06:14,221
that even those still alive
sat on corpses for lack of space.
489
01:06:17,224 --> 01:06:20,436
Didn't people here
who went by the trains
490
01:06:20,519 --> 01:06:23,230
look through the cracks in the cars?
491
01:06:32,573 --> 01:06:36,077
Yes, they could look in sometimes
as they went by.
492
01:06:39,872 --> 01:06:43,918
When they were allowed,
they gave them water, too.
493
01:06:44,293 --> 01:06:46,462
How did the Jews try to get out?
494
01:06:46,545 --> 01:06:49,048
The doors weren't opened.
How'd they get out?
495
01:06:53,302 --> 01:06:55,096
Through the windows.
496
01:06:58,057 --> 01:06:59,684
They removed the barbed wire
497
01:07:01,769 --> 01:07:03,479
and came out of the windows.
498
01:07:03,562 --> 01:07:05,147
They jumped, of course.
499
01:07:10,778 --> 01:07:15,491
Sometimes they just deliberately
sat down on the ground,
500
01:07:15,991 --> 01:07:20,621
and the guards came
and shot them in the head.
501
01:07:31,298 --> 01:07:35,302
Theyjumped from the cars...
What a sight!
502
01:07:36,345 --> 01:07:38,139
Jumping from the windows.
503
01:07:40,141 --> 01:07:43,102
There was a mother and child.
504
01:07:43,185 --> 01:07:45,354
- Jewish?
- Yes.
505
01:07:45,438 --> 01:07:47,189
She tried to run away,
506
01:07:47,648 --> 01:07:51,193
and they shot her in the heart.
507
01:07:54,780 --> 01:07:57,491
- Shot who... the mother?
- Yes, the mother.
508
01:07:59,952 --> 01:08:04,498
This gentleman has lived here
a long time, he can't forget.
509
01:08:15,676 --> 01:08:18,888
He says that now he can't understand
510
01:08:18,971 --> 01:08:23,517
how a man can do that
to another human being.
511
01:08:24,351 --> 01:08:26,562
It's inconceivable,
beyond understanding.
512
01:08:29,023 --> 01:08:32,359
Once when the Jews asked for water,
a Ukrainian went by
513
01:08:33,360 --> 01:08:35,362
and forbade giving any.
514
01:08:38,282 --> 01:08:41,619
The Jewish woman
that had asked for water...
515
01:08:41,702 --> 01:08:47,041
threw her pot at his head.
516
01:08:56,008 --> 01:09:00,137
The Ukrainian moved back,
517
01:09:00,930 --> 01:09:05,518
maybe ten yards,
and opened fire on the car.
518
01:09:06,727 --> 01:09:09,563
Blood and brains
were all over the place.
519
01:09:12,983 --> 01:09:15,528
Lots of people opened the doors
520
01:09:18,405 --> 01:09:20,616
or escaped through the windows.
521
01:09:23,869 --> 01:09:29,500
Sometimes the Ukrainians
fired through the car walls.
522
01:10:02,283 --> 01:10:03,784
It happened chiefly at night.
523
01:10:03,868 --> 01:10:08,122
When the Jews talked to each other,
as he showed us,
524
01:10:08,205 --> 01:10:12,543
the Ukrainians wanted things quiet,
525
01:10:12,626 --> 01:10:15,921
and they asked...
yes, asked them to shut up.
526
01:10:16,005 --> 01:10:20,551
So the Jews shut up
and the guard moved off.
527
01:10:20,634 --> 01:10:24,388
Then the Jews started talking again,
in their language,
528
01:10:24,471 --> 01:10:26,348
as he says, ra-ra-ra, and so on.
529
01:10:26,432 --> 01:10:30,895
What's he mean, la-la-la?
What's he trying to imitate?
530
01:10:30,978 --> 01:10:33,314
- Their language.
- No, ask him.
531
01:10:37,484 --> 01:10:39,862
Was the Jews' noise something special?
532
01:10:40,988 --> 01:10:42,740
They spoke Jew.
533
01:10:44,408 --> 01:10:46,452
Does Mr. Borowi understand “Jew”?
534
01:10:47,995 --> 01:10:49,246
No.
535
01:12:32,975 --> 01:12:36,687
Did he hear screams
behind his locomotive?
536
01:12:43,736 --> 01:12:48,323
Obviously, since the locomotive
was next to the camp.
537
01:12:48,407 --> 01:12:50,951
They screamed, asked for water.
538
01:12:58,459 --> 01:13:03,213
The screams from the cars
closest to the locomotive
539
01:13:03,297 --> 01:13:05,924
could be heard very well.
540
01:13:09,887 --> 01:13:11,805
Can one get used to that?
541
01:13:18,312 --> 01:13:19,354
No.
542
01:13:23,484 --> 01:13:26,320
It was extremely distressing to him.
543
01:13:26,403 --> 01:13:31,658
He knew that the people behind him
were human, like him.
544
01:13:38,248 --> 01:13:44,922
The Germans gave him
and the other workers vodka to drink.
545
01:13:45,005 --> 01:13:47,883
Without drinking,
they couldn't have done it.
546
01:13:54,348 --> 01:13:56,183
There was a bonus
547
01:14:00,813 --> 01:14:04,900
that they were paid
not in money, but in liquor.
548
01:14:07,778 --> 01:14:11,532
Those who worked on other trains
didn't get this bonus.
549
01:14:14,993 --> 01:14:18,372
HENRIK GAWKOWSKI
550
01:14:25,212 --> 01:14:28,465
He drank every drop he got
551
01:14:28,549 --> 01:14:33,470
because without liquor
he couldn't stand the stench
552
01:14:33,554 --> 01:14:35,514
when he got here.
553
01:14:35,597 --> 01:14:39,977
They even bought more liquor
on their own
554
01:14:40,227 --> 01:14:42,229
to get drunk on.
555
01:15:50,797 --> 01:15:55,427
From the station
to the unloading ramp in the camp,
556
01:15:55,510 --> 01:15:57,846
how many miles?
557
01:16:10,609 --> 01:16:11,610
Foun
558
01:17:23,056 --> 01:17:25,100
AB RAHAM BC) M BA
559
01:17:49,166 --> 01:17:51,084
We traveled for two days.
560
01:17:53,045 --> 01:17:55,380
On the morning of the second day
561
01:17:55,464 --> 01:18:00,052
we saw that
we had left Czechoslovakia
562
01:18:00,135 --> 01:18:04,806
and were heading east.
563
01:18:09,603 --> 01:18:13,231
It wasn't the SS guarding us,
564
01:18:13,607 --> 01:18:17,652
but the Schutzpolizei,
565
01:18:17,736 --> 01:18:20,447
the police, in green uniforms.
566
01:18:23,617 --> 01:18:26,870
We were in ordinary passenger cars.
567
01:18:26,953 --> 01:18:28,955
All the seats were filled.
568
01:18:30,165 --> 01:18:32,501
You couldn't choose.
569
01:18:32,584 --> 01:18:35,337
They were all numbered and assigned.
570
01:18:37,381 --> 01:18:41,718
In my compartment
there was an elderly couple.
571
01:18:41,802 --> 01:18:43,595
I still remember:
572
01:18:43,678 --> 01:18:49,601
The good man was always hungry
and his wife scolded him,
573
01:18:49,684 --> 01:18:56,274
saying they'd have no food left
for the future.
574
01:19:00,153 --> 01:19:02,155
RICHARD GLAZAR
575
01:19:02,906 --> 01:19:06,076
Then, on the second day,
576
01:19:06,326 --> 01:19:09,413
I saw a sign for Malkinia.
577
01:19:09,830 --> 01:19:11,998
We went on a little farther.
578
01:19:12,499 --> 01:19:17,421
Then, very slowly,
579
01:19:17,504 --> 01:19:21,425
the train turned off the main track
580
01:19:21,508 --> 01:19:25,846
and rolled at a walking pace
through a wood.
581
01:19:25,929 --> 01:19:28,807
While he looked out,
582
01:19:29,683 --> 01:19:32,394
we'd been able to open a window.
583
01:19:32,477 --> 01:19:36,440
The old man
in our compartment saw a boy...
584
01:19:36,523 --> 01:19:40,068
Cows were grazing...
585
01:19:40,318 --> 01:19:44,156
And he asked the boy in signs,
586
01:19:44,239 --> 01:19:46,616
“Where are we?”
587
01:19:47,534 --> 01:19:50,537
And the kid made a funny gesture. This!
588
01:19:51,455 --> 01:19:53,165
Across the throat.
589
01:19:55,750 --> 01:19:57,961
- A Pole?
- A Pole.
590
01:19:58,044 --> 01:20:00,380
Where was this? At the station?
591
01:20:00,464 --> 01:20:06,344
It was where the train had stopped.
592
01:20:06,428 --> 01:20:08,305
On one side was the wood,
593
01:20:08,388 --> 01:20:11,433
and on the other were fields.
594
01:20:11,516 --> 01:20:13,810
And there was a farmer in a field?
595
01:20:13,894 --> 01:20:16,938
We saw cows
596
01:20:17,022 --> 01:20:20,775
watched over by a young man,
597
01:20:20,859 --> 01:20:25,864
a farmhand.
598
01:20:26,198 --> 01:20:28,283
And one of you questioned him?
599
01:20:28,366 --> 01:20:35,165
Not in words, but in signs, we asked,
“What's going on here?”
600
01:20:35,248 --> 01:20:38,251
And he made that gesture. Like this.
601
01:20:40,253 --> 01:20:43,256
We didn't really
602
01:20:44,174 --> 01:20:47,052
pay much attention to him.
603
01:20:47,135 --> 01:20:49,554
We couldn't figure out what he meant.
604
01:21:09,282 --> 01:21:11,868
Once there were foreign Jews...
605
01:21:12,410 --> 01:21:14,204
They were this fat...
606
01:21:14,496 --> 01:21:15,789
This fat?
607
01:21:16,289 --> 01:21:19,292
Riding in passenger cars.
608
01:21:19,543 --> 01:21:22,546
There was a dining car,
they could drink
609
01:21:22,629 --> 01:21:24,923
and walk around, too.
610
01:21:25,382 --> 01:21:28,969
They said they were going to a factory.
611
01:21:29,219 --> 01:21:33,807
On arrival, they saw
what kind of a factory it was.
612
01:21:37,978 --> 01:21:39,563
We'd gesture...
613
01:21:39,646 --> 01:21:41,147
Gesture how?
614
01:21:43,567 --> 01:21:45,402
That they'd be killed.
615
01:21:45,485 --> 01:21:47,153
These people made that sign?
616
01:21:47,237 --> 01:21:49,322
He says the Jews didn't believe it.
617
01:21:49,406 --> 01:21:51,658
But what does that gesture mean?
618
01:21:54,619 --> 01:21:56,788
That death awaited them.
619
01:22:09,009 --> 01:22:12,178
The people who had a chance
to get near the Jews
620
01:22:12,262 --> 01:22:14,556
did that to warn them...
621
01:22:14,639 --> 01:22:17,976
- He did it too?
- That they'd be hanged, killed, slain.
622
01:22:19,019 --> 01:22:20,020
Yes.
623
01:22:23,440 --> 01:22:27,444
Even foreign Jews
from Belgium, Czechoslovakia,
624
01:22:27,527 --> 01:22:29,863
from France too, surely.
625
01:22:31,031 --> 01:22:32,699
And from Holland...
626
01:22:35,285 --> 01:22:36,870
These didn't know,
627
01:22:44,461 --> 01:22:48,048
but the Polish Jews knew.
628
01:22:48,131 --> 01:22:53,887
In the small cities in the area,
629
01:22:54,095 --> 01:22:55,305
it was talked about.
630
01:22:55,388 --> 01:22:59,476
So the Polish Jews were forewarned,
but not the others.
631
01:22:59,559 --> 01:23:02,562
Who'd they warn,
Polish Jews or the others?
632
01:23:08,568 --> 01:23:11,363
All the Jews.
633
01:23:36,638 --> 01:23:40,183
He says the foreign Jews
arrived here in passenger cars,
634
01:23:40,266 --> 01:23:42,769
they were well dressed, in white shirts,
635
01:23:42,852 --> 01:23:47,232
there were flowers in the cars,
and they played cards.
636
01:23:48,233 --> 01:23:52,278
From what I know, that was very rare,
637
01:23:52,529 --> 01:23:55,990
Jews shipped in passenger cars.
638
01:23:56,074 --> 01:24:00,370
Most arrived in cattle cars.
639
01:24:15,135 --> 01:24:17,053
It's not true.
640
01:24:18,138 --> 01:24:19,806
It's not true?
641
01:24:22,434 --> 01:24:24,227
What did Mrs. Gawkowska say?
642
01:24:24,310 --> 01:24:28,064
She said he may not
have seen everything.
643
01:24:29,983 --> 01:24:32,110
He says he did.
644
01:24:59,304 --> 01:25:02,432
Once, at the Malkinia station,
for example,
645
01:25:02,515 --> 01:25:05,852
a foreign Jew left the train
646
01:25:05,935 --> 01:25:08,271
to buy something at the bar.
647
01:25:09,564 --> 01:25:13,985
The train pulled out
and he ran after it...
648
01:25:14,068 --> 01:25:15,820
To catch up to it.
649
01:25:17,197 --> 01:25:22,410
So he went past these “Pullmans,”
as he calls them,
650
01:25:22,494 --> 01:25:27,624
those Jews who were calm, unsuspecting,
651
01:25:27,707 --> 01:25:30,210
and he made that gesture to them.
652
01:25:41,596 --> 01:25:43,807
To all the Jews, in principle.
653
01:25:43,890 --> 01:25:46,643
He just went along the platform.
Ask him.
654
01:25:53,775 --> 01:25:58,071
Yes. The road was as it is now.
655
01:26:00,281 --> 01:26:04,661
When the guard wasn't looking,
656
01:26:04,911 --> 01:26:07,372
he made that gesture.
657
01:26:12,377 --> 01:26:15,547
Ask Mr. Gawkowski why he looks so sad.
658
01:26:24,931 --> 01:26:27,767
Because I saw men
marching to their death.
659
01:26:30,728 --> 01:26:32,856
Precisely where are we now?
660
01:26:42,615 --> 01:26:47,495
It's not far...
a mile and a half from here.
661
01:26:47,579 --> 01:26:48,872
What, the camp?
662
01:26:55,628 --> 01:26:58,965
What's that dirt road he's indicating?
663
01:27:07,974 --> 01:27:11,144
That's where the rail line
into the camp was.
664
01:27:29,329 --> 01:27:33,166
Did Mr. Gawkowski,
aside from the trains of deportees
665
01:27:33,249 --> 01:27:38,880
he drove from Warsaw or Bialystok
to the Treblinka station...
666
01:27:38,963 --> 01:27:43,509
Did he ever drive the deportee cars
667
01:27:43,593 --> 01:27:46,512
into the camp
from the Treblinka station?
668
01:28:03,321 --> 01:28:05,114
Did he do it often?
669
01:28:09,035 --> 01:28:11,704
Two or three times a week.
670
01:28:12,455 --> 01:28:14,040
Over how long a period?
671
01:28:18,711 --> 01:28:20,922
Around a year and a half.
672
01:28:21,214 --> 01:28:25,134
That is,
throughout the camp's existence?
673
01:29:04,674 --> 01:29:06,384
This is the ramp.
674
01:29:07,760 --> 01:29:10,722
Here he is, he goes
to the end with his locomotive,
675
01:29:10,805 --> 01:29:14,058
and he has the 20 cars behind him.
676
01:29:20,314 --> 01:29:23,192
No, they're in front of him.
677
01:29:23,276 --> 01:29:24,902
He pushed them?
678
01:29:26,070 --> 01:29:27,739
That's right, he pushed them.
679
01:30:26,172 --> 01:30:28,257
In February 1942,
680
01:30:28,341 --> 01:30:31,469
I began working here
as an assistant switchman.
681
01:30:33,054 --> 01:30:36,390
The station building,
the rails, the platforms
682
01:30:36,474 --> 01:30:39,519
are just as they were in 1942?
683
01:30:39,602 --> 01:30:41,687
Nothing's changed?
684
01:30:45,441 --> 01:30:46,442
Nothing.
685
01:30:46,526 --> 01:30:49,403
Exactly where did the camp begin?
686
01:30:52,490 --> 01:30:54,617
JAN PIWONSKI
687
01:30:55,201 --> 01:30:57,870
I'll show you exactly.
688
01:31:17,306 --> 01:31:18,724
Here,
689
01:31:25,148 --> 01:31:29,318
there was a fence that ran
to those trees you see there.
690
01:31:36,242 --> 01:31:39,495
And another fence
that ran to those trees over there.
691
01:31:40,413 --> 01:31:44,917
So I'm standing
inside the camp perimeter, right?
692
01:31:48,754 --> 01:31:49,839
That's right.
693
01:31:49,922 --> 01:31:53,676
Where I am now
is 50 feet from the station,
694
01:31:53,759 --> 01:31:55,595
and I'm already outside the camp.
695
01:32:00,266 --> 01:32:01,434
Yes.
696
01:32:04,896 --> 01:32:07,857
So this is the Polish part,
and over there was death.
697
01:32:11,569 --> 01:32:12,236
Yes.
698
01:32:23,039 --> 01:32:27,793
On German orders,
Polish railmen split up the trains.
699
01:32:34,926 --> 01:32:36,886
So the locomotive took 20 cars
700
01:32:36,969 --> 01:32:40,056
and headed toward Chelm.
701
01:32:42,850 --> 01:32:45,269
When it reached a switch,
702
01:32:47,230 --> 01:32:53,694
it pushed the cars into the camp
on the other track we can see.
703
01:32:54,528 --> 01:32:55,780
The ramp began there.
704
01:32:55,863 --> 01:32:59,242
So here we're outside the camp,
705
01:32:59,325 --> 01:33:03,746
and back here we enter it.
706
01:33:03,829 --> 01:33:08,501
Unlike Treblinka,
the station here is part of the camp.
707
01:33:13,965 --> 01:33:18,469
And at this point,
we are inside the camp.
708
01:33:21,347 --> 01:33:24,183
This track was inside the camp.
709
01:33:25,017 --> 01:33:27,353
And it's exactly as it was?
710
01:33:32,400 --> 01:33:34,193
Yes, the same track.
711
01:33:34,652 --> 01:33:36,862
It hasn't changed since then.
712
01:33:36,946 --> 01:33:41,033
Where we are now
is what was called the ramp, right?
713
01:33:49,834 --> 01:33:54,630
Yes, those to be exterminated
were unloaded here.
714
01:33:54,714 --> 01:33:56,173
So where we're standing
715
01:33:56,257 --> 01:34:01,137
is where 250,000 Jews
were unloaded before being gassed.
716
01:34:05,641 --> 01:34:06,642
Yes.
717
01:34:12,231 --> 01:34:16,902
Did foreign Jews arrive here
in passenger cars, too?
718
01:34:26,078 --> 01:34:27,830
Not always.
719
01:34:32,418 --> 01:34:34,462
Often the richest Jews,
720
01:34:36,088 --> 01:34:38,341
from Belgium, Holland, France,
721
01:34:40,051 --> 01:34:42,303
arrived in passenger cars,
722
01:34:43,095 --> 01:34:45,348
sometimes even in 1st class.
723
01:34:49,393 --> 01:34:52,438
They were usually better treated
by the guards.
724
01:35:14,835 --> 01:35:18,339
Especially the convoys
of Western European Jews
725
01:35:18,422 --> 01:35:20,966
waiting their turn here,
726
01:35:23,803 --> 01:35:28,015
Polish railmen saw the women
putting on make-up, combing their hair,
727
01:35:28,099 --> 01:35:31,644
wholly unaware
of what awaited them minutes later.
728
01:35:32,478 --> 01:35:34,313
They dolled up.
729
01:35:45,324 --> 01:35:47,660
And the Poles
couldn't tell them anything:
730
01:35:47,743 --> 01:35:53,040
The guards forbad contact
with the future victims.
731
01:36:00,965 --> 01:36:03,509
I suppose there were fine days
like today.
732
01:36:11,183 --> 01:36:13,853
Unfortunately, some were even finer.
733
01:37:23,589 --> 01:37:26,675
RUDOLF VRBA - NEW YORK, USA,
survivor of Auschwitz
734
01:37:50,950 --> 01:37:54,036
AUSCHWITZ - BIRKENAU
735
01:42:47,746 --> 01:42:51,834
And suddenly it started:
the yelling and screaming.
736
01:42:52,835 --> 01:42:54,795
“AII out, everybody out!”
737
01:42:55,254 --> 01:42:59,383
All those shouts,
the uproar, the tumult!
738
01:42:59,925 --> 01:43:02,219
“Out! Get out!
739
01:43:04,930 --> 01:43:07,140
Leave the baggage!”
740
01:43:07,683 --> 01:43:11,436
We got out, stepping on each other.
741
01:43:18,610 --> 01:43:22,114
We saw men wearing blue armbands.
742
01:43:22,197 --> 01:43:26,827
Some carried whips.
743
01:43:28,996 --> 01:43:31,707
We saw some SS men.
744
01:43:31,790 --> 01:43:34,918
Green uniforms,
745
01:43:35,002 --> 01:43:40,090
black uniforms...
746
01:43:42,801 --> 01:43:44,803
We were a mass,
747
01:43:47,055 --> 01:43:50,559
and the mass swept us along.
748
01:43:50,642 --> 01:43:52,436
It was irresistible.
749
01:43:52,519 --> 01:43:55,856
It had to move to another place.
750
01:44:08,160 --> 01:44:10,662
I saw the others undressing.
751
01:44:12,164 --> 01:44:16,710
And I heard, “Get undressed!
You're to be disinfected!”
752
01:44:19,254 --> 01:44:22,841
As I waited, already naked,
753
01:44:22,925 --> 01:44:29,890
I noticed the SS men
separating out some people.
754
01:44:29,973 --> 01:44:32,309
These were told to get dressed.
755
01:44:34,227 --> 01:44:40,317
A passing SS man
suddenly stopped in front of me,
756
01:44:41,693 --> 01:44:45,280
looked me over, and said,
757
01:44:45,364 --> 01:44:50,118
“Yes, you too, quick,
join the others, get dressed.
758
01:44:50,369 --> 01:44:54,957
You're going to work here,
and if you're good,
759
01:44:55,040 --> 01:44:57,834
you can be a kapo... a squad leader. ”
760
01:48:17,951 --> 01:48:20,871
BIRKENAUI THE RAMP
761
01:48:54,487 --> 01:48:58,450
We were taken to the barracks.
762
01:48:59,868 --> 01:49:03,371
The whole place stank.
763
01:49:05,624 --> 01:49:09,294
Piled about five feet high
764
01:49:09,669 --> 01:49:14,633
in a jumbled mass,
765
01:49:14,716 --> 01:49:19,638
were all the things people
could conceivably have brought.
766
01:49:21,056 --> 01:49:24,643
Clothes, suitcases,
767
01:49:24,726 --> 01:49:29,898
everything stacked in a solid mass.
768
01:49:30,982 --> 01:49:34,903
On top of it,
jumping around like demons,
769
01:49:34,986 --> 01:49:40,617
people were making bundles
770
01:49:41,034 --> 01:49:44,329
and carrying them outside.
771
01:49:45,247 --> 01:49:49,417
I was turned over to one of these men.
772
01:49:49,501 --> 01:49:54,214
His armband said, “Squad Leader.”
773
01:49:54,881 --> 01:49:56,466
He shouted,
774
01:49:56,549 --> 01:50:02,639
and I understood that I was also
to pick up clothing, bundle it,
775
01:50:04,307 --> 01:50:09,980
and take it somewhere.
776
01:50:12,399 --> 01:50:15,944
As I worked, I asked him,
777
01:50:16,027 --> 01:50:20,615
“What's going on?
The undressed ones... Where are they?”
778
01:50:21,700 --> 01:50:26,746
And he replied, “Dead! All dead!”
779
01:50:29,124 --> 01:50:33,753
But it still hadn't sunk in,
I didn't believe it.
780
01:50:34,421 --> 01:50:36,256
He'd used the Yiddish word.
781
01:50:36,339 --> 01:50:41,970
It was the first time
I'd heard Yiddish spoken.
782
01:50:44,723 --> 01:50:48,977
He didn't say it very loud,
783
01:50:50,061 --> 01:50:54,941
and I saw he had tears in his eyes.
784
01:50:55,984 --> 01:50:59,821
Suddenly he started shouting
785
01:50:59,904 --> 01:51:01,906
and raised his whip.
786
01:51:02,157 --> 01:51:07,203
Out of the corner of my eyes,
I saw an SS man coming.
787
01:51:07,287 --> 01:51:11,416
And I understood
that I was to ask no more questions,
788
01:51:11,666 --> 01:51:18,006
but just to rush outside
with the package.
789
01:52:41,214 --> 01:52:45,844
All I could think of then
was my friend Care! Unger.
790
01:52:47,554 --> 01:52:51,182
He'd been at the rear of the train,
791
01:52:51,266 --> 01:52:56,062
in a section that had been uncoupled
and left outside.
792
01:52:57,856 --> 01:53:02,777
I needed someone.
Near me. With me.
793
01:53:06,239 --> 01:53:10,285
Then I saw him.
He was in the 2nd group.
794
01:53:10,368 --> 01:53:13,037
He'd been spared too.
795
01:53:15,748 --> 01:53:21,004
On the way, somehow,
he had learned, he already knew.
796
01:53:21,087 --> 01:53:23,715
He looked at me,
797
01:53:25,133 --> 01:53:31,014
all he said was,
“Richard, my father, mother, brother...”
798
01:53:32,974 --> 01:53:36,186
He had learned on the way there.
799
01:53:38,897 --> 01:53:42,650
Your meeting with Carel:
800
01:53:42,734 --> 01:53:46,404
how long after your arrival
did it happen?
801
01:53:47,947 --> 01:53:54,662
It was... around 20 minutes
after we reached Treblinka.
802
01:54:01,711 --> 01:54:04,839
Then I left the barracks
803
01:54:04,923 --> 01:54:09,844
and had my first look at the vast space
804
01:54:10,595 --> 01:54:17,769
that I soon learned
was called “the sorting place.”
805
01:54:18,937 --> 01:54:24,275
It was buried under mountains
of objects of all kinds.
806
01:54:25,026 --> 01:54:29,656
Mountains of shoes,
of clothes, 30 feet high.
807
01:54:32,450 --> 01:54:36,412
I thought about it and said to Carel,
808
01:54:36,496 --> 01:54:39,707
“I! is a hurricane, a raging sea.
809
01:54:39,791 --> 01:54:43,878
We're shipwrecked.
And we're still alive.
810
01:54:43,962 --> 01:54:46,422
We must do nothing
811
01:54:46,506 --> 01:54:49,717
but watch for every new wave,
812
01:54:49,801 --> 01:54:52,887
float on it,
813
01:54:52,971 --> 01:54:58,893
get ready for the next wave,
814
01:54:58,977 --> 01:55:01,062
and ride the wave at all costs.
815
01:55:01,145 --> 01:55:03,565
And nothing else.”
816
01:57:44,225 --> 01:57:47,270
Greenery, sand everywhere else.
817
01:57:47,645 --> 01:57:50,773
At night, we were put into barracks.
818
01:57:50,857 --> 01:57:52,817
It just had a sand floor.
819
01:57:52,900 --> 01:57:55,361
Nothing else.
820
01:57:55,820 --> 01:58:01,242
Each of us simply dropped
where he stood.
821
01:58:01,993 --> 01:58:08,166
Half asleep,
I heard some men hang themselves.
822
01:58:08,374 --> 01:58:12,587
We didn't react then.
It was almost normal.
823
01:58:14,172 --> 01:58:16,257
Just as it was normal
824
01:58:16,340 --> 01:58:23,890
that for everyone behind whom
the gate of Treblinka closed,
825
01:58:24,348 --> 01:58:28,186
there was death, had to be death,
826
01:58:28,436 --> 01:58:35,234
for no one was supposed
to be left to bear witness.
827
01:58:37,028 --> 01:58:41,157
I already knew that,
828
01:58:41,240 --> 01:58:46,788
three hours after arriving at Treblinka.
829
02:00:56,834 --> 02:00:59,170
BERLIN
830
02:03:30,571 --> 02:03:33,866
INGE DEUTSCHKRON
Born in Berlin
831
02:03:34,158 --> 02:03:37,745
Lived there through the war
832
02:03:38,120 --> 02:03:42,166
(In hiding beginning in February 1943)
833
02:03:42,500 --> 02:03:46,378
Now lives in Israel
834
02:05:15,217 --> 02:05:18,846
FRANZ SUCHOMEL:
SS Unterscharfuhrer
835
02:05:21,056 --> 02:05:24,894
- Are you ready?
- Yes.
836
02:05:24,977 --> 02:05:27,646
- Then we can...
- We can begin.
837
02:05:31,317 --> 02:05:35,529
How's your heart?
Is everything in order?
838
02:05:36,739 --> 02:05:39,658
Oh, my heart...
For the moment, ifs all right.
839
02:05:39,742 --> 02:05:43,370
If I have any pain, I'll tell you.
840
02:05:43,454 --> 02:05:45,039
We'll have to break off.
841
02:05:45,122 --> 02:05:46,790
Of course.
842
02:05:48,834 --> 02:05:51,295
But your health, in general, is...
843
02:05:51,378 --> 02:05:55,299
The weather today suits me fine.
844
02:05:55,549 --> 02:06:00,262
The barometric pressure is high:
That's good for me.
845
02:06:00,471 --> 02:06:04,391
You look to be in good shape, anyway.
846
02:06:05,267 --> 02:06:09,104
Let's begin with Treblinka.
847
02:06:09,188 --> 02:06:10,397
Certainly.
848
02:06:10,481 --> 02:06:12,483
I think that's best.
849
02:06:12,858 --> 02:06:15,611
If you could give us
850
02:06:18,489 --> 02:06:22,451
a description of Treblinka.
851
02:06:23,160 --> 02:06:26,580
How did it look when you arrived?
852
02:06:26,664 --> 02:06:31,752
I believe you got there in August?
853
02:06:31,835 --> 02:06:35,005
Was it August 20 or 24?
854
02:06:35,839 --> 02:06:38,801
The 18th?
- I don't know exactly.
855
02:06:38,884 --> 02:06:42,263
Around August 20.
856
02:06:43,472 --> 02:06:47,434
I arrived there with seven other men.
857
02:06:48,060 --> 02:06:49,603
From Berlin?
858
02:06:49,687 --> 02:06:50,980
From Berlin.
859
02:06:51,063 --> 02:06:52,773
From Lublin?
860
02:06:53,565 --> 02:06:57,611
From Berlin to Warsaw,
from Warsaw to Lublin,
861
02:06:57,695 --> 02:07:03,075
from Lublin back to Warsaw
and from Warsaw to Treblinka.
862
02:07:03,367 --> 02:07:07,705
What was Treblinka like then?
863
02:07:08,372 --> 02:07:13,294
Treblinka then was operating
at full capacity.
864
02:07:13,877 --> 02:07:16,547
- Full capacity?
- Full capacity!
865
02:07:18,215 --> 02:07:20,551
Trains arrived...
866
02:07:21,844 --> 02:07:26,265
The Warsaw ghetto
was being emptied then.
867
02:07:28,058 --> 02:07:34,606
Three trains arrived in two days,
868
02:07:36,150 --> 02:07:43,282
each with three, four,
five thousand people aboard,
869
02:07:44,241 --> 02:07:46,744
all from Warsaw.
870
02:07:47,411 --> 02:07:52,583
But at the same time,
other trains came in
871
02:07:53,459 --> 02:07:58,255
from Kielce and other places.
872
02:07:59,256 --> 02:08:02,468
So three trains arrived,
873
02:08:03,427 --> 02:08:09,558
and since the offensive
against Stalingrad was in fear,
874
02:08:09,767 --> 02:08:14,646
the trainloads of Jews
were left on a station siding.
875
02:08:15,606 --> 02:08:20,778
What's more, the cars were French,
876
02:08:21,737 --> 02:08:23,822
made of steel.
877
02:08:24,073 --> 02:08:30,287
So that while 5,000 Jews
arrived in Treblinka,
878
02:08:30,913 --> 02:08:33,665
3,000 were dead.
879
02:08:34,333 --> 02:08:36,502
- In the...
- In the cars.
880
02:08:36,585 --> 02:08:39,129
They had slashed their wrists,
881
02:08:41,006 --> 02:08:44,510
or just died.
882
02:08:46,512 --> 02:08:50,891
The ones we unloaded
were half-dead
883
02:08:50,974 --> 02:08:55,896
and half-mad.
884
02:08:58,190 --> 02:09:03,862
In the other trains from Kielce
885
02:09:04,154 --> 02:09:06,657
and elsewhere,
886
02:09:07,366 --> 02:09:10,160
at least half were dead.
887
02:09:11,120 --> 02:09:15,249
We stacked them here, here,
888
02:09:17,292 --> 02:09:19,378
here and here.
889
02:09:19,962 --> 02:09:22,840
Thousands of people
890
02:09:23,841 --> 02:09:27,052
piled one on top of another.
891
02:09:29,179 --> 02:09:31,515
- On the ramp?
- On the ramp.
892
02:09:32,182 --> 02:09:35,352
Stacked like wood.
893
02:09:35,727 --> 02:09:36,979
In addition,
894
02:09:37,062 --> 02:09:42,776
other Jews, still alive,
waited there for two days:
895
02:09:42,860 --> 02:09:47,239
The small gas chambers
could no longer handle the number.
896
02:09:47,322 --> 02:09:54,246
They functioned
day and night in that period.
897
02:09:54,329 --> 02:09:58,876
Can you please describe, very precisely,
898
02:09:59,251 --> 02:10:03,338
your first impression of Treblinka?
899
02:10:03,422 --> 02:10:07,301
Very precisely. it's very important.
900
02:10:07,384 --> 02:10:11,889
My first impression of Treblinka,
901
02:10:12,514 --> 02:10:18,562
and that of some of the other men,
was catastrophic.
902
02:10:19,438 --> 02:10:22,399
For we had not been told
903
02:10:23,233 --> 02:10:28,405
how and what...
that people were being killed there.
904
02:10:28,780 --> 02:10:30,324
They hadn't told us.
905
02:10:30,407 --> 02:10:32,534
- You didn't know?
- No!
906
02:10:33,160 --> 02:10:35,829
Incredible!
907
02:10:36,079 --> 02:10:40,083
But true. I didn't want to go.
908
02:10:40,792 --> 02:10:43,378
That was proved at my trial.
909
02:10:43,587 --> 02:10:45,881
I was told,
910
02:10:45,964 --> 02:10:47,883
“Mr. Suchomel,
911
02:10:48,550 --> 02:10:52,679
there are big workshops there
for tailors and shoemakers,
912
02:10:52,930 --> 02:10:55,766
and you'll be guarding them.”
913
02:10:56,517 --> 02:11:00,938
Nothing more.
- But you knew it was a camp?
914
02:11:01,021 --> 02:11:03,482
Yes. We were told,
915
02:11:03,774 --> 02:11:09,905
“The Fuhrer ordered
a resettlement program.
916
02:11:10,113 --> 02:11:13,116
It's an order from the Fuhrer.”
917
02:11:13,992 --> 02:11:16,411
Understand?
- Resettlement program...
918
02:11:20,082 --> 02:11:22,751
No one ever spoke of killing.
919
02:11:24,127 --> 02:11:25,879
I understand.
920
02:11:25,963 --> 02:11:30,217
Mr. Suchomel, we're not discussing you,
921
02:11:30,300 --> 02:11:32,261
only Treblinka.
922
02:11:32,344 --> 02:11:35,764
You are a very important eyewitness,
923
02:11:35,847 --> 02:11:40,686
and you can explain what Treblinka was.
924
02:11:40,769 --> 02:11:42,896
But don't use my name.
925
02:11:42,980 --> 02:11:47,192
No, I promise.
926
02:11:49,027 --> 02:11:52,072
All right, you've arrived at Treblinka.
927
02:11:52,155 --> 02:11:55,659
So Stadie, the sarge,
928
02:11:56,159 --> 02:11:59,621
showed us the camp
929
02:12:01,290 --> 02:12:04,918
from end to end.
930
02:12:07,170 --> 02:12:10,966
Just as we went by,
931
02:12:11,049 --> 02:12:16,722
they were opening the gas chamber doors,
932
02:12:16,805 --> 02:12:21,393
and people fell out like potatoes.
933
02:12:24,688 --> 02:12:29,693
Naturally, that horrified
and appalled us.
934
02:12:30,193 --> 02:12:34,823
We went back and sat down
on our suitcases
935
02:12:34,906 --> 02:12:38,368
and cried like old women.
936
02:12:42,873 --> 02:12:47,544
Each day, 100 Jews were chosen
937
02:12:48,170 --> 02:12:52,215
to drag the corpses to the mass graves.
938
02:12:53,550 --> 02:13:01,433
In the evening, the Ukrainians drove
those Jews into the gas chambers
939
02:13:01,683 --> 02:13:03,310
or shot them.
940
02:13:03,393 --> 02:13:05,145
Every day!
941
02:13:07,564 --> 02:13:10,776
It was in the hottest days of August.
942
02:13:14,237 --> 02:13:19,076
The ground undulated like waves
943
02:13:19,284 --> 02:13:21,161
because of the gas.
944
02:13:21,244 --> 02:13:23,455
From the bodies?
945
02:13:23,789 --> 02:13:28,418
Bear in mind, the graves
were maybe 18, 20 feet deep,
946
02:13:29,252 --> 02:13:33,757
all crammed with bodies!
947
02:13:34,549 --> 02:13:38,970
A thin layer of sand
and the heat. You see?
948
02:13:39,221 --> 02:13:41,515
It was hell up there.
949
02:13:41,598 --> 02:13:42,933
You saw that?
950
02:13:43,016 --> 02:13:46,895
Yes, just once, the first day.
951
02:13:46,978 --> 02:13:49,940
We puked and wept.
952
02:13:50,023 --> 02:13:52,776
- You wept?
- We wept too, yes.
953
02:13:56,947 --> 02:13:59,658
The smell was infernal.
954
02:13:59,950 --> 02:14:04,204
Yes, because gas
was constantly escaping.
955
02:14:04,287 --> 02:14:08,750
It stank horribly, for miles around.
956
02:14:09,042 --> 02:14:11,253
- Miles?
- Miles!
957
02:14:11,336 --> 02:14:13,505
You could smell it all around,
958
02:14:14,297 --> 02:14:16,341
not just in the camp?
959
02:14:16,425 --> 02:14:20,595
Everywhere. It depended on the wind.
960
02:14:20,679 --> 02:14:23,640
The stink was carried on the wind.
961
02:14:24,641 --> 02:14:26,560
Understand?
962
02:14:34,651 --> 02:14:38,905
More people kept coming, always more,
963
02:14:38,989 --> 02:14:42,826
whom we hadn't the facilities to kill.
964
02:14:48,707 --> 02:14:54,045
Those gents were in a rush
to clean out the Warsaw ghetto.
965
02:14:57,382 --> 02:15:01,386
The gas chambers
couldn't handle the load.
966
02:15:01,470 --> 02:15:04,014
The small gas chambers.
967
02:15:20,697 --> 02:15:24,284
The Jews had to wait their turn
968
02:15:24,367 --> 02:15:28,872
for a day, 2 days, 3 days.
969
02:15:35,170 --> 02:15:37,547
They foresaw what was coming.
970
02:15:38,673 --> 02:15:41,218
They foresaw it.
971
02:15:42,552 --> 02:15:47,891
They may not have been certain,
but many knew.
972
02:15:52,729 --> 02:15:57,317
There were Jewish women
973
02:15:57,859 --> 02:16:01,655
who slashed
their daughters' wrists at night,
974
02:16:01,905 --> 02:16:05,242
then cut their own.
975
02:16:06,034 --> 02:16:08,745
Others poisoned themselves.
976
02:16:10,038 --> 02:16:15,585
They heard the engine
feeding the gas chamber.
977
02:16:18,713 --> 02:16:23,301
A tank engine was used
in that gas chamber.
978
02:16:25,095 --> 02:16:30,642
At Treblinka, the only gas used
was engine exhaust.
979
02:16:31,101 --> 02:16:33,520
Zyklon gas, that was Auschwitz.
980
02:16:40,277 --> 02:16:44,114
Because of the delay,
981
02:16:44,865 --> 02:16:49,661
Eberl, the camp commandant,
982
02:16:50,620 --> 02:16:54,958
phoned Lublin and said,
983
02:16:55,709 --> 02:16:59,880
“We can't go on this way.
I can't do it any longer.
984
02:16:59,963 --> 02:17:04,175
We have to break off.”
985
02:17:04,259 --> 02:17:07,971
Overnight, Wirth arrived.
986
02:17:09,097 --> 02:17:12,851
He inspected everything and then left.
987
02:17:12,934 --> 02:17:17,063
He returned with people from Belzec,
988
02:17:17,147 --> 02:17:19,482
experts.
989
02:17:20,650 --> 02:17:25,280
Wirth arranged to suspend the trains.
990
02:17:27,824 --> 02:17:33,288
The corpses lying there
were cleared away.
991
02:17:34,331 --> 02:17:38,960
That was the period
of the old gas chambers.
992
02:17:39,502 --> 02:17:44,591
Because there were so many dead
993
02:17:44,674 --> 02:17:47,427
that couldn't be gotten rid of,
994
02:17:48,011 --> 02:17:52,265
for days and days,
995
02:17:53,600 --> 02:17:58,688
the bodies piled up
around the gas chambers.
996
02:17:59,981 --> 02:18:04,361
Under this pile of bodies
was a cesspool:
997
02:18:05,111 --> 02:18:09,699
3 inches deep, full of blood, worms...
998
02:18:11,326 --> 02:18:13,536
and shit.
999
02:18:15,747 --> 02:18:18,833
- Where?
- In front of the gas chamber.
1000
02:18:21,461 --> 02:18:24,297
No one wanted to clean it out.
1001
02:18:24,381 --> 02:18:28,426
The Jews preferred to be shot
1002
02:18:29,552 --> 02:18:32,389
rather than work there.
1003
02:18:33,056 --> 02:18:35,558
Preferred to be shot?
1004
02:18:38,395 --> 02:18:44,317
It was awful. Burying
their own people, seeing it all...
1005
02:18:44,401 --> 02:18:48,738
The dead flesh came off in their hands.
1006
02:18:49,864 --> 02:18:52,951
So Wirth went there himself
1007
02:18:53,994 --> 02:18:56,538
with a few Germans
1008
02:18:57,747 --> 02:19:01,751
and had long belts rigged up
1009
02:19:02,210 --> 02:19:06,798
that were wrapped
around the dead torsos to pull them...
1010
02:19:06,881 --> 02:19:09,342
- Who did that?
- SS men.
1011
02:19:09,426 --> 02:19:11,511
- Wirth?
- SS men and Jews.
1012
02:19:11,594 --> 02:19:13,388
SS men and Jews!
1013
02:19:14,180 --> 02:19:15,849
Jews too?
1014
02:19:15,932 --> 02:19:18,101
Jews too!
1015
02:19:20,061 --> 02:19:23,314
What did the Germans do?
1016
02:19:23,398 --> 02:19:26,860
They forced the Jews to...
1017
02:19:26,943 --> 02:19:29,195
They beat them?
1018
02:19:29,279 --> 02:19:34,701
Or they themselves helped
with the cleanup.
1019
02:19:34,784 --> 02:19:37,620
Which Germans did that?
1020
02:19:39,122 --> 02:19:45,295
Some of our guards
who were assigned up there.
1021
02:19:47,964 --> 02:19:49,507
The Germans themselves?
1022
02:19:49,591 --> 02:19:52,677
They had to.
1023
02:19:53,136 --> 02:19:54,596
They were in command!
1024
02:19:54,679 --> 02:20:00,143
They were in command,
but they were also commanded.
1025
02:20:00,226 --> 02:20:03,646
I think the Jews did it.
1026
02:20:04,898 --> 02:20:10,820
In that case,
the Germans had to lend a hand.
1027
02:20:12,655 --> 02:20:16,701
THE BLACK EXECUTION WALL
IN THE COURTYARD OF BLOCK II
1028
02:20:18,828 --> 02:20:22,957
AT AUSCHWITZ I,
THE ORIGINAL CAMP
1029
02:20:25,752 --> 02:20:29,756
Filip, on that Sunday in May 1942,
1030
02:20:29,839 --> 02:20:36,471
when you first entered
the Auschwitz crematorium,
1031
02:20:36,554 --> 02:20:38,348
how old were you?
1032
02:20:39,432 --> 02:20:41,226
Twenty.
1033
02:20:48,691 --> 02:20:51,694
It was a Sunday in May.
1034
02:20:59,369 --> 02:21:04,749
We were locked
in an underground cell in Block 11.
1035
02:21:06,292 --> 02:21:09,045
We were held in secret.
1036
02:21:13,341 --> 02:21:17,053
Then some SS men appeared
1037
02:21:18,888 --> 02:21:23,726
and marched us
along a street in the camp.
1038
02:21:33,987 --> 02:21:38,074
We went through a gate,
1039
02:21:44,539 --> 02:21:47,292
and around 300 feet away,
1040
02:21:48,251 --> 02:21:50,753
300 feet from the gate,
1041
02:21:51,337 --> 02:21:54,757
I suddenly saw a building.
1042
02:21:55,091 --> 02:22:00,805
It had a flat roof, and a smokestack.
1043
02:22:09,689 --> 02:22:12,775
I saw a door in the rear.
1044
02:22:16,613 --> 02:22:22,285
I thought they were taking us
to be shot.
1045
02:22:24,579 --> 02:22:27,707
FILIP MULLER - CZECH JEW
1046
02:22:27,790 --> 02:22:32,670
Survivor of the 5 liquidations
of the Auschwitz “special detail”
1047
02:22:35,590 --> 02:22:39,469
Suddenly, before a door
1048
02:22:40,637 --> 02:22:46,309
under a lamp
in the middle of this building,
1049
02:22:46,392 --> 02:22:51,522
a young SS man told us,
1050
02:22:51,606 --> 02:22:54,734
“Inside, filthy swine!”
1051
02:22:54,817 --> 02:22:58,488
We entered a corridor.
1052
02:22:59,781 --> 02:23:02,659
They drove us along it.
1053
02:23:14,337 --> 02:23:20,343
Right away, the stench,
the smoke choked me.
1054
02:23:29,978 --> 02:23:32,689
They kept on chasing us,
1055
02:23:33,982 --> 02:23:38,361
and then I made out the shapes
1056
02:23:39,362 --> 02:23:42,865
of the first two ovens.
1057
02:23:47,996 --> 02:23:52,583
Between the ovens,
some Jewish prisoners were working.
1058
02:23:58,339 --> 02:24:03,428
We were in the crematorium's
incineration chamber
1059
02:24:03,886 --> 02:24:06,723
in Camp I at Auschwitz.
1060
02:24:13,229 --> 02:24:14,731
From there,
1061
02:24:15,231 --> 02:24:21,321
they herded us to another big room,
1062
02:24:25,575 --> 02:24:30,872
and told us to undress the corpses.
1063
02:24:33,583 --> 02:24:36,044
I looked around me.
1064
02:24:39,172 --> 02:24:42,759
There were hundreds of bodies,
1065
02:24:44,177 --> 02:24:46,554
all dressed.
1066
02:24:48,222 --> 02:24:50,975
Piled with the corpses
1067
02:24:52,268 --> 02:24:55,313
were suitcases, bundles
1068
02:24:56,022 --> 02:24:58,107
and, scattered everywhere,
1069
02:24:58,691 --> 02:25:02,820
strange, bluish-purple crystals.
1070
02:25:02,904 --> 02:25:06,157
I couldn't understand any of it.
1071
02:25:13,456 --> 02:25:19,379
It was like a blow to the head...
as if you'd been stunned.
1072
02:25:19,629 --> 02:25:22,882
I didn't even know where I was.
1073
02:25:22,965 --> 02:25:25,635
Above all, I couldn't understand
1074
02:25:25,718 --> 02:25:29,972
how they managed
to kill so many people at once.
1075
02:25:32,725 --> 02:25:36,187
When we undressed some of them,
1076
02:25:36,270 --> 02:25:40,149
the order was given to feed the ovens.
1077
02:25:44,654 --> 02:25:49,325
Suddenly, an SS man
rushed up and told me,
1078
02:25:49,409 --> 02:25:52,787
“Get out of here! Go stir the bodies!”
1079
02:25:53,162 --> 02:25:55,164
What did he mean,
1080
02:25:55,248 --> 02:25:57,625
“Stir the bodies”?
1081
02:25:58,167 --> 02:26:02,755
I entered the cremation chamber.
1082
02:26:02,839 --> 02:26:07,468
There was a Jewish prisoner,
1083
02:26:07,552 --> 02:26:11,639
Fischel, who later became
a squad leader.
1084
02:26:12,140 --> 02:26:13,891
He looked at me,
1085
02:26:14,559 --> 02:26:21,065
and I watched him
poke the fire with a long rod.
1086
02:26:21,649 --> 02:26:25,403
He told me, “Do as I'm doing
1087
02:26:25,486 --> 02:26:28,656
or the SS Will kill you.”
1088
02:26:29,282 --> 02:26:32,869
I picked up a poker
1089
02:26:32,952 --> 02:26:35,663
and did as he was doing.
1090
02:26:35,746 --> 02:26:38,082
A poker?
1091
02:26:38,166 --> 02:26:40,126
A steel poker.
1092
02:26:41,210 --> 02:26:44,630
I obeyed Fischel's order.
1093
02:26:44,714 --> 02:26:49,760
At that point I was in shock
as if I'd been hypnotized,
1094
02:26:50,511 --> 02:26:56,309
ready to do
1095
02:26:56,392 --> 02:26:58,895
whatever I was told.
1096
02:26:58,978 --> 02:27:05,693
I was so mindless, so horrified
1097
02:27:05,776 --> 02:27:13,868
that I did everything Fischel told me.
1098
02:27:14,410 --> 02:27:17,413
So the ovens were fed,
1099
02:27:18,164 --> 02:27:21,959
but we were so inexperienced
1100
02:27:23,002 --> 02:27:31,469
that we left the fans on too long.
1101
02:27:31,719 --> 02:27:34,764
- The fans?
- Yes.
1102
02:27:34,847 --> 02:27:39,143
There were fans
to make the fire hotter.
1103
02:27:39,602 --> 02:27:43,523
They worked too long...
1104
02:27:43,606 --> 02:27:48,903
The firebrick suddenly exploded,
1105
02:27:49,904 --> 02:27:55,117
blocking the pipes
1106
02:27:55,201 --> 02:27:58,621
linking the Auschwitz crematorium
1107
02:27:59,413 --> 02:28:02,708
with the smokestack.
1108
02:28:04,627 --> 02:28:08,839
Cremation was interrupted.
1109
02:28:09,465 --> 02:28:13,135
The ovens were out of action.
1110
02:28:15,721 --> 02:28:20,184
That evening, some trucks came,
1111
02:28:20,601 --> 02:28:22,895
and we had to load the rest,
1112
02:28:22,979 --> 02:28:26,065
some 300 bodies,
1113
02:28:26,148 --> 02:28:29,068
into the trucks.
1114
02:28:29,151 --> 02:28:34,156
Then we were taken...
1115
02:28:36,158 --> 02:28:39,245
I still don't know where...
1116
02:28:39,328 --> 02:28:44,292
but probably to a field at Birkenau.
1117
02:28:48,588 --> 02:28:55,011
We were ordered
to unload the bodies
1118
02:28:55,344 --> 02:29:01,726
and put them in a pit.
1119
02:29:02,310 --> 02:29:06,272
There was a ditch, an artificial pit.
1120
02:29:06,355 --> 02:29:09,900
Suddenly, water gushed up
from underground
1121
02:29:09,984 --> 02:29:13,195
and swept the bodies down.
1122
02:29:18,659 --> 02:29:23,581
When night came,
we had to stop that horrible work.
1123
02:29:24,540 --> 02:29:27,043
We were loaded into the trucks
1124
02:29:27,126 --> 02:29:31,547
and returned to Auschwitz.
1125
02:29:36,177 --> 02:29:37,845
The next day,
1126
02:29:38,137 --> 02:29:44,769
we were taken to the same place.
1127
02:29:52,568 --> 02:29:55,571
But the water had risen.
1128
02:29:57,239 --> 02:30:01,118
Some SS men came
with a fire truck
1129
02:30:01,202 --> 02:30:04,705
and pumped out the water.
1130
02:30:05,956 --> 02:30:10,002
We had to go down
into that muddy pit
1131
02:30:10,086 --> 02:30:13,798
to stack up the bodies.
1132
02:30:17,093 --> 02:30:18,844
But they were slimy.
1133
02:30:18,928 --> 02:30:23,349
For example, I grasped a woman,
1134
02:30:23,432 --> 02:30:25,768
but her hands...
1135
02:30:25,851 --> 02:30:28,187
Her hand was slippery, slimy.
1136
02:30:28,270 --> 02:30:30,856
I tried to pull her,
1137
02:30:30,940 --> 02:30:37,613
but I fell over backward,
into the water, the mud.
1138
02:30:39,198 --> 02:30:41,701
It was the same for all of us.
1139
02:30:41,784 --> 02:30:47,873
Up above, at the edge of the pit,
Aumeyer and Grabner yelled,
1140
02:30:47,957 --> 02:30:51,961
“Get cracking, you filth, you bastards!
1141
02:30:52,044 --> 02:30:56,716
We'll show you, you bunch of shits!”
1142
02:30:56,799 --> 02:30:59,969
These were the names they were calling us.
1143
02:31:00,302 --> 02:31:02,138
And in these...
1144
02:31:07,768 --> 02:31:10,354
how shall I say?
...circumstances,
1145
02:31:11,731 --> 02:31:16,652
2 of my “friends”
couldn't take any more.
1146
02:31:16,736 --> 02:31:19,488
One was a French student.
1147
02:31:21,490 --> 02:31:24,785
All Jews! They were exhausted.
1148
02:31:30,666 --> 02:31:33,836
They just lay there...
1149
02:31:34,670 --> 02:31:37,590
in the mud.
1150
02:31:37,840 --> 02:31:41,761
Aumeyer called one of his SS men.
1151
02:31:41,844 --> 02:31:45,681
“Go on, finish off those swine!”
1152
02:31:48,642 --> 02:31:53,189
They were exhausted.
And they were shot in the pit.
1153
02:31:59,153 --> 02:32:04,533
There was no crematorium
at Birkenau then?
1154
02:32:05,242 --> 02:32:09,705
No, there weren't any there yet.
1155
02:32:11,373 --> 02:32:14,376
Birkenau still wasn't completely set up.
1156
02:32:14,877 --> 02:32:20,299
Only Camp BI, which was
the late women's camp, existed.
1157
02:32:26,680 --> 02:32:30,476
It wasn't until the spring of 1943
1158
02:32:30,559 --> 02:32:36,065
that skilled workmen
and unskilled laborers, all Jews,
1159
02:32:36,148 --> 02:32:38,734
must have gone to work here
1160
02:32:38,818 --> 02:32:42,029
and built the 4 crematorium.
1161
02:32:45,574 --> 02:32:48,786
Each crematorium had 15 ovens,
1162
02:32:49,912 --> 02:32:54,750
a big undressing room,
around 3,000 square feet,
1163
02:32:55,584 --> 02:32:57,837
and a big gas chamber
1164
02:32:57,920 --> 02:33:02,550
where up to 3,000 people at once
could be gassed.
1165
02:33:05,261 --> 02:33:06,720
TREBLINKA
1166
02:33:06,804 --> 02:33:12,101
The new gas chambers
were built in September 1942.
1167
02:33:12,601 --> 02:33:14,937
Who built them?
1168
02:33:15,437 --> 02:33:23,195
Hackenhold and Lambert supervised
the Jews who did the work,
1169
02:33:23,445 --> 02:33:25,990
the bricklaying, at least.
1170
02:33:27,449 --> 02:33:33,747
Ukrainian carpenters made the doors.
1171
02:33:35,583 --> 02:33:39,295
The gas chamber doors themselves
1172
02:33:39,378 --> 02:33:43,507
were armored bunker doors.
1173
02:33:43,591 --> 02:33:47,511
I think they were brought
from Bialystok,
1174
02:33:47,595 --> 02:33:50,180
from some Russian bunkers.
1175
02:33:53,851 --> 02:33:55,936
FRANZ SUCHOMEL
1176
02:33:56,020 --> 02:34:00,190
What was the capacity
of the new gas chambers?
1177
02:34:00,274 --> 02:34:02,901
There were 2 of them, right?
- Yes.
1178
02:34:02,985 --> 02:34:09,158
But the old ones
hadn't been demolished.
1179
02:34:10,659 --> 02:34:14,955
When there were a lot of trains,
a lot of people,
1180
02:34:15,039 --> 02:34:18,584
the old ovens
were put back into service.
1181
02:34:20,419 --> 02:34:25,799
And here... the Jews say
there were 5 on each side.
1182
02:34:26,050 --> 02:34:28,260
I say there were 4,
1183
02:34:28,510 --> 02:34:30,763
but I'm not sure.
1184
02:34:30,846 --> 02:34:34,350
In any case, only the upper row,
1185
02:34:36,060 --> 02:34:37,978
on this side,
1186
02:34:38,854 --> 02:34:41,815
was in action.
1187
02:34:41,899 --> 02:34:44,276
Why not the other side?
1188
02:34:44,360 --> 02:34:51,075
Disposing of the bodies
would have been too complicated.
1189
02:34:51,784 --> 02:34:53,285
- Too far?
- Yes.
1190
02:34:53,369 --> 02:34:59,208
Up there,
Wirth had built the death camp,
1191
02:34:59,750 --> 02:35:06,256
assigning a detail
of Jewish workers to it.
1192
02:35:07,049 --> 02:35:10,678
The detail had a fixed number in it,
1193
02:35:10,761 --> 02:35:13,931
around 200 people,
1194
02:35:17,101 --> 02:35:21,188
who worked only in the death camp.
1195
02:35:21,271 --> 02:35:25,943
But what was the capacity
of the new gas chambers?
1196
02:35:27,111 --> 02:35:30,614
The new gas chambers... Let's see...
1197
02:35:31,448 --> 02:35:36,120
They could finish off 3,000 people
in two hours.
1198
02:35:38,831 --> 02:35:43,836
How many people at once
in a single gas chamber?
1199
02:35:44,128 --> 02:35:47,297
I can't say exactly.
1200
02:35:47,381 --> 02:35:49,758
The Jews say 200.
1201
02:35:50,300 --> 02:35:53,178
- 200?
- That's right, 200.
1202
02:35:54,430 --> 02:36:00,185
Imagine a room this size.
1203
02:36:00,269 --> 02:36:02,396
They put more in at Auschwitz.
1204
02:36:02,646 --> 02:36:05,149
Auschwitz was a factory!
1205
02:36:07,109 --> 02:36:09,403
And Treblinka?
1206
02:36:09,820 --> 02:36:12,823
I'll give you my definition.
1207
02:36:13,657 --> 02:36:15,367
Keep this in mind:
1208
02:36:15,451 --> 02:36:20,998
Treblinka was a primitive,
1209
02:36:21,665 --> 02:36:27,921
but efficient production line of death.
1210
02:36:28,255 --> 02:36:31,049
- A production line?
- Of death.
1211
02:36:32,009 --> 02:36:34,178
Understand?
- Yes.
1212
02:36:38,515 --> 02:36:42,978
But primitive...?
- Primitive, yes.
1213
02:36:43,854 --> 02:36:48,776
But it worked well,
that production line of death.
1214
02:36:49,026 --> 02:36:52,237
Was Belzec even more rudimentary?
1215
02:36:52,321 --> 02:36:55,741
Belzec was the laboratory.
1216
02:36:55,824 --> 02:37:00,204
Wirth was camp commandant.
1217
02:37:01,538 --> 02:37:06,210
He tried everything imaginable there.
1218
02:37:07,211 --> 02:37:10,756
He got off on the wrong foot.
1219
02:37:10,839 --> 02:37:12,841
The pits were overflowing,
1220
02:37:12,925 --> 02:37:18,680
and the cesspool seeped out
in front of the SS mess hall.
1221
02:37:18,764 --> 02:37:20,432
It stank...
1222
02:37:21,433 --> 02:37:24,812
in front of the mess-hall,
in front of their barracks.
1223
02:37:25,229 --> 02:37:28,065
- Were you at Belzec?
- No.
1224
02:37:28,690 --> 02:37:31,735
Wirth with his own men.
1225
02:37:32,361 --> 02:37:35,322
With Franz, with Oberhauser
1226
02:37:35,906 --> 02:37:37,658
and Hackenhold...
1227
02:37:37,741 --> 02:37:39,743
he tried everything there.
1228
02:37:40,744 --> 02:37:47,000
Those 3 had to put the bodies
in the pits themselves
1229
02:37:48,043 --> 02:37:53,924
so that Wirth could see
how much space he needed.
1230
02:37:54,925 --> 02:37:58,095
And when they rebelled...
1231
02:37:58,512 --> 02:37:59,721
Franz refused...
1232
02:37:59,805 --> 02:38:02,808
Wirth beat Franz with a whip.
1233
02:38:02,891 --> 02:38:05,644
He whipped Hackenhold, too. You see?
1234
02:38:05,727 --> 02:38:08,146
- Kurt Franz?
- Kurt Franz.
1235
02:38:10,065 --> 02:38:11,567
That's how Wirth was.
1236
02:38:11,650 --> 02:38:15,279
Then, with that experience behind him,
1237
02:38:16,697 --> 02:38:18,282
he came to Treblinka.
1238
02:39:58,006 --> 02:40:05,055
Excuse me. How many quarts
of beer a day do you sell?
1239
02:40:07,849 --> 02:40:10,102
You can't tell me?
1240
02:40:12,229 --> 02:40:15,899
I'd rather not.
I have my reasons.
1241
02:40:16,233 --> 02:40:17,734
But why not?
1242
02:40:18,568 --> 02:40:20,696
Two Pilsners.
1243
02:40:24,866 --> 02:40:31,123
How many quarts of beer a day
do you sell?
1244
02:40:33,208 --> 02:40:35,836
- Go on, tell him.
- Tell him what?
1245
02:40:35,919 --> 02:40:39,089
Just tell him approximately.
1246
02:40:39,339 --> 02:40:42,801
How many quarts of beer a day
do you sell?
1247
02:40:42,884 --> 02:40:44,011
400, 500 quarts.
1248
02:40:44,094 --> 02:40:46,722
- What?
- 400, 500 quarts.
1249
02:40:49,266 --> 02:40:50,809
That's a lot!
1250
02:40:57,274 --> 02:41:00,152
Have you worked here long?
1251
02:41:01,611 --> 02:41:04,406
Around 20 years.
1252
02:41:06,450 --> 02:41:09,745
- Why are you hiding...
- I have my reasons.
1253
02:41:09,828 --> 02:41:12,998
- Your face?
- I have my reasons.
1254
02:41:13,248 --> 02:41:15,167
What reasons?
1255
02:41:17,169 --> 02:41:20,338
- Never mind.
- Why not?
1256
02:41:33,643 --> 02:41:35,812
Do you recognize this man?
1257
02:41:38,356 --> 02:41:39,649
No?
1258
02:41:39,983 --> 02:41:41,777
Christian Wirth?
1259
02:41:41,860 --> 02:41:43,653
Mr. Oberhauser!
1260
02:41:44,154 --> 02:41:46,073
Do you remember Belzec?
1261
02:41:47,365 --> 02:41:49,993
No memories of Belzec?
1262
02:41:57,834 --> 02:42:05,175
Of the overflowing graves?
1263
02:42:16,228 --> 02:42:18,188
You don't remember?
1264
02:42:24,361 --> 02:42:29,241
MUNICH
1265
02:42:38,208 --> 02:42:40,669
WUPPERTALI ANTON SPIESS,
1266
02:42:40,877 --> 02:42:45,132
German state prosecutor
at the Treblinka trial (Frankfurt, 1960)
1267
02:42:50,720 --> 02:42:55,934
When the Action itself
first got under way,
1268
02:42:56,017 --> 02:42:59,062
it was almost totally improvised.
1269
02:43:02,232 --> 02:43:06,778
At Treblinka, for example,
1270
02:43:06,862 --> 02:43:11,950
the commandant, Dr. Eberl,
let more trains come in
1271
02:43:12,033 --> 02:43:16,580
than the camp could handle.
1272
02:43:17,205 --> 02:43:19,291
It was a disaster!
1273
02:43:19,374 --> 02:43:21,501
Mountains of corpses!
1274
02:43:22,085 --> 02:43:27,007
Word of this foul-up
1275
02:43:27,090 --> 02:43:31,178
reached the head of the Reinhard Action,
1276
02:43:31,261 --> 02:43:34,681
00770 G/oboczn/k, in Lub//n.
1277
02:43:34,764 --> 02:43:37,559
He went to Treblinka
1278
02:43:37,642 --> 02:43:42,522
to see what was happening.
1279
02:43:42,606 --> 02:43:46,693
There's a very concrete
account of the trip
1280
02:43:46,776 --> 02:43:50,864
by his former driver, Oberhauser.
1281
02:43:50,947 --> 02:43:53,992
Globocznik arrived
on a hot day in August.
1282
02:43:54,075 --> 02:43:59,080
The camp was permeated
1283
02:44:00,081 --> 02:44:03,877
with the stench of rotting flesh.
1284
02:44:03,960 --> 02:44:10,800
Globocznik didn't even bother
to enter the camp.
1285
02:44:10,884 --> 02:44:13,762
He stopped here,
before the commandant's office,
1286
02:44:13,845 --> 02:44:15,931
sent for Dr. Eberl
1287
02:44:16,014 --> 02:44:20,435
and greeted him with these words,
1288
02:44:20,518 --> 02:44:24,648
“How dare you accept
so many every day
1289
02:44:24,731 --> 02:44:27,734
when you can only process 3,000?”
1290
02:44:35,992 --> 02:44:38,745
Operations were suspended,
1291
02:44:39,371 --> 02:44:42,874
Eberl was transferred and Wirth came,
1292
02:44:44,167 --> 02:44:46,920
followed immediately by Stangl,
1293
02:44:48,213 --> 02:44:52,384
and the camp was completely reorganized.
1294
02:45:02,102 --> 02:45:06,231
The Reinhard Action
covered 3 extermination camps."
1295
02:45:06,314 --> 02:45:09,859
Treblinka, Sobibor and Belzec.
1296
02:45:10,235 --> 02:45:15,073
There's also talk of 3 death camps
on the Bug River,
1297
02:45:15,156 --> 02:45:19,369
for they were all located
on or near the Bug.
1298
02:45:23,665 --> 02:45:27,544
The gas chambers
were the heart of the camp.
1299
02:45:29,504 --> 02:45:32,007
They were built first,
1300
02:45:32,382 --> 02:45:36,052
in the woods, or in a field,
as at Treblinka.
1301
02:45:36,720 --> 02:45:41,725
The gas chambers were
the only stone buildings.
1302
02:45:42,517 --> 02:45:46,062
All the others were wooden sheds.
1303
02:45:46,563 --> 02:45:50,066
These camps weren't built to last.
1304
02:45:51,401 --> 02:45:56,156
Himmler was in a huny
to begin the 'final solution. ”
1305
02:45:56,239 --> 02:46:00,535
The Germans had to capitalize
on their eastward advance
1306
02:46:00,618 --> 02:46:02,829
and use this remote back-country
1307
02:46:02,912 --> 02:46:10,295
to carry out their mass murder
as secretly as possible.
1308
02:46:15,383 --> 02:46:17,969
So at first they couldn't
manage the perfection
1309
02:46:18,053 --> 02:46:21,139
they achieved 3 months later.
1310
02:46:38,156 --> 02:46:40,950
Near the end of March 1942,
1311
02:46:47,165 --> 02:46:51,252
sizeable groups of Jews
were herded here,
1312
02:46:51,336 --> 02:46:53,463
groups of 50 to 100 people.
1313
02:46:58,927 --> 02:47:00,970
Several trains arrived
1314
02:47:08,269 --> 02:47:12,232
with sections of barracks,
with posts, barbed wire, bricks...
1315
02:47:19,656 --> 02:47:23,535
and construction
of the camp as such began.
1316
02:47:35,213 --> 02:47:37,507
The Jews unloaded these cars
1317
02:47:42,345 --> 02:47:45,682
and carted the sections
of barracks to the camp.
1318
02:47:54,858 --> 02:47:58,611
The Germans made them
work extremely fast.
1319
02:48:09,831 --> 02:48:13,376
When we saw the pace they worked at...
1320
02:48:21,718 --> 02:48:24,095
It was extremely brutal.
1321
02:48:32,604 --> 02:48:36,816
When we saw the complex being built,
and the fence,
1322
02:48:37,066 --> 02:48:40,153
which, after all, enclosed a vast space,
1323
02:48:48,203 --> 02:48:52,207
we realized that
what the Germans were building
1324
02:48:52,290 --> 02:48:55,001
wasn't meant to aid mankind.
1325
02:49:05,261 --> 02:49:07,555
Early in June,
1326
02:49:14,604 --> 02:49:16,773
the first convoy arrived.
1327
02:49:20,360 --> 02:49:22,946
I'd say there were over 40 cars.
1328
02:49:28,910 --> 02:49:32,664
With the convoy
were SS men in black uniforms.
1329
02:49:37,126 --> 02:49:40,922
It happened one afternoon.
He had just finished work.
1330
02:49:41,005 --> 02:49:45,176
JAN PIWONSKI
1331
02:49:45,677 --> 02:49:48,972
But he got on his bicycle and went home.
1332
02:49:50,056 --> 02:49:51,474
Why?
1333
02:50:03,528 --> 02:50:05,363
I merely thought
1334
02:50:06,197 --> 02:50:09,909
these people had come to build the camp,
1335
02:50:10,618 --> 02:50:12,662
as the others had before them.
1336
02:50:14,372 --> 02:50:15,999
That convoy...
1337
02:50:17,542 --> 02:50:21,004
There was no way
of knowing that it was...
1338
02:50:25,008 --> 02:50:27,176
the first earmarked for extermination.
1339
02:50:28,595 --> 02:50:30,179
Besides,
1340
02:50:31,180 --> 02:50:34,517
he couldn't have known that Sobibor
1341
02:50:36,185 --> 02:50:40,857
would be a place for the mass
extermination of the Jews.
1342
02:50:51,284 --> 02:50:55,747
The next morning,
when I came here to work,
1343
02:50:55,997 --> 02:51:00,043
the station was absolutely silent,
1344
02:51:24,692 --> 02:51:29,113
and we realized,
1345
02:51:29,197 --> 02:51:34,911
after talking with the Poles
who worked at the station here,
1346
02:51:36,746 --> 02:51:41,459
that something utterly
incomprehensible had happened.
1347
02:51:47,590 --> 02:51:50,426
First of all, when the camp
was being built,
1348
02:51:56,599 --> 02:51:58,851
there were orders shouted in German,
1349
02:51:59,310 --> 02:52:01,020
there were screams,
1350
02:52:02,230 --> 02:52:05,983
Jews were working at the run,
there were shots,
1351
02:52:06,818 --> 02:52:09,946
and here there was that silence,
1352
02:52:15,284 --> 02:52:17,286
no work crews,
1353
02:52:20,790 --> 02:52:22,959
a really total silence.
1354
02:52:31,175 --> 02:52:34,971
40 cars had arrived,
and then... nothing.
1355
02:52:35,179 --> 02:52:37,974
It was all very strange.
1356
02:52:39,308 --> 02:52:41,561
It was the silence that tipped them off?
1357
02:52:41,644 --> 02:52:42,895
That's right.
1358
02:52:42,979 --> 02:52:44,981
Can he describe that silence?
1359
02:52:47,650 --> 02:52:49,485
It was a silence...
1360
02:52:50,611 --> 02:52:54,741
Nothing was going on in the camp.
You heard nothing.
1361
02:52:54,824 --> 02:52:56,659
Nothing moved.
1362
02:53:03,499 --> 02:53:06,502
So then they began to wonder,
1363
02:53:09,922 --> 02:53:13,217
“Where have they put those Jews?”
1364
02:53:17,930 --> 02:53:22,852
Cell 13, Block 11 at Auschwitz 1,
1365
02:53:22,935 --> 02:53:26,355
is where
the Special Work Detail was held.
1366
02:53:28,441 --> 02:53:32,028
The cell was underground, isolated.
1367
02:53:32,987 --> 02:53:36,407
For we were...
1368
02:53:37,950 --> 02:53:39,994
“bearers of secrets,”
1369
02:53:41,496 --> 02:53:43,873
we were reprieved dead men.
1370
02:53:45,875 --> 02:53:49,003
We weren't allowed to talk to anyone,
1371
02:53:49,212 --> 02:53:52,006
or contact any prisoner,
1372
02:53:52,548 --> 02:53:55,468
even the SS.
1373
02:53:55,718 --> 02:53:59,931
Only those in charge of the “Action.”
1374
02:54:03,935 --> 02:54:06,062
There was a window.
1375
02:54:06,896 --> 02:54:10,525
We heard what happened in the courtyard.
1376
02:54:12,235 --> 02:54:14,487
The executions,
1377
02:54:15,530 --> 02:54:18,783
the victims' cries, the screams,
1378
02:54:19,492 --> 02:54:21,661
but we couldn't see anything.
1379
02:54:27,542 --> 02:54:30,127
This went on for several days.
1380
02:54:31,504 --> 02:54:35,591
One night an SS man came
1381
02:54:36,509 --> 02:54:38,719
from the political section.
1382
02:54:40,513 --> 02:54:46,227
It was around 4 A.M.
1383
02:54:50,439 --> 02:54:55,736
The whole camp was still asleep.
1384
02:54:58,281 --> 02:55:01,158
There wasn't a sound in the camp.
1385
02:55:09,625 --> 02:55:14,881
We were again taken out of our cell
1386
02:55:16,924 --> 02:55:19,802
and led to the crematorium.
1387
02:55:25,182 --> 02:55:29,061
There, for the first time,
I saw the procedure used
1388
02:55:29,145 --> 02:55:33,274
with those who came in alive.
1389
02:55:34,400 --> 02:55:36,569
We were lined up against a wall
1390
02:55:36,652 --> 02:55:40,531
and told, “No one may talk
to those people.”
1391
02:55:44,493 --> 02:55:49,582
Suddenly, the wooden door
to the crematorium courtyard opened,
1392
02:55:49,665 --> 02:55:55,463
and 250 to 300 people filed in:
1393
02:55:55,546 --> 02:55:58,841
old people, and women.
1394
02:56:01,177 --> 02:56:04,972
They carried bundles,
wore the Star of David.
1395
02:56:06,974 --> 02:56:09,685
Even from a distance, I could tell
1396
02:56:09,769 --> 02:56:13,314
they were Polish Jews,
1397
02:56:14,899 --> 02:56:18,486
probably from Upper Silesia,
1398
02:56:18,694 --> 02:56:23,699
from the Sosnowiec ghetto,
some 20 miles from Auschwitz.
1399
02:56:25,910 --> 02:56:27,286
FILIP MULLER
1400
02:56:27,370 --> 02:56:32,583
I caught some of the things they said.
1401
02:56:33,709 --> 02:56:35,544
I heard “fachowitz,”
1402
02:56:35,628 --> 02:56:38,047
meaning “skilled worker.”
1403
02:56:38,464 --> 02:56:41,384
And “Malach-ha-Mavis,”
1404
02:56:42,134 --> 02:56:45,179
which means
“the angel of death” in Yiddish.
1405
02:56:47,974 --> 02:56:51,268
Also, “harginnen”:
“They're going to kill us.”
1406
02:56:54,730 --> 02:56:58,651
From what I could hear,
1407
02:56:58,901 --> 02:57:03,155
I clearly understood
the struggle going on inside them.
1408
02:57:03,406 --> 02:57:05,658
Sometimes they spoke of work
1409
02:57:05,741 --> 02:57:10,246
probably hoping
that they'd be put to work.
1410
02:57:11,414 --> 02:57:15,751
Or they spoke of “Malach-ha-Mavis,”
the angel of death.
1411
02:57:17,336 --> 02:57:21,590
The conflicting words echoed
the conflict in their feelings.
1412
02:57:22,341 --> 02:57:25,886
Then a sudden silence
1413
02:57:26,429 --> 02:57:30,683
fell over those gathered
in the crematorium courtyard.
1414
02:57:33,310 --> 02:57:36,439
All eyes converged
1415
02:57:37,189 --> 02:57:40,735
on the flat roof of the crematorium.
1416
02:57:44,447 --> 02:57:46,532
Who was standing there?
1417
02:57:46,615 --> 02:57:48,951
Aumeyer, of the SS,
1418
02:57:49,869 --> 02:57:52,663
Grabner,
the head of the political section,
1419
02:57:53,247 --> 02:57:55,958
and Hossler, the SS officer.
1420
02:57:57,084 --> 02:58:00,463
Aumeyer addressed the crowd,
1421
02:58:02,423 --> 02:58:06,052
“You're here to work,
1422
02:58:06,135 --> 02:58:11,057
for our soldiers fighting at the front.
1423
02:58:13,309 --> 02:58:16,270
Those who can work will be all right.”
1424
02:58:17,480 --> 02:58:25,071
it was obvious
that hope flared in those people.
1425
02:58:25,154 --> 02:58:29,158
You could feel it clearly.
1426
02:58:30,409 --> 02:58:33,996
The executioners had gotten
past the first obstacle.
1427
02:58:34,997 --> 02:58:38,459
They saw it was succeeding.
1428
02:58:40,336 --> 02:58:42,671
Then Grabner spoke up,
1429
02:58:44,006 --> 02:58:48,677
“We need masons, electricians,
1430
02:58:49,345 --> 02:58:51,555
all the trades.”
1431
02:58:52,515 --> 02:58:56,852
Next, Hossler took over.
1432
02:58:58,020 --> 02:59:02,691
He pointed to a short man in the crowd.
1433
02:59:02,775 --> 02:59:04,860
I can still see him.
1434
02:59:04,944 --> 02:59:06,779
“What's your trade?”
1435
02:59:06,862 --> 02:59:08,280
The man said,
1436
02:59:08,364 --> 02:59:11,700
“Mr. Officer, I'm a tailor.”
1437
02:59:12,493 --> 02:59:16,038
“A tailor? What kind of tailor?”
1438
02:59:17,248 --> 02:59:21,544
“A man's... No, for both men and women.”
1439
02:59:21,627 --> 02:59:26,882
“Wonderful! We need people
like you in our workshops.”
1440
02:59:29,051 --> 02:59:32,054
Then he questioned a woman,
1441
02:59:32,805 --> 02:59:35,474
“What's your trade?”
1442
02:59:36,100 --> 02:59:38,644
“Nurse,” she replied.
1443
02:59:38,727 --> 02:59:45,234
“Splendid! We need nurses
in our hospitals for our soldiers.
1444
02:59:45,568 --> 02:59:49,947
We need all of you!
But first, undress.
1445
02:59:50,823 --> 02:59:53,742
You must be disinfected.
1446
02:59:53,951 --> 02:59:57,163
We want you healthy.”
1447
02:59:59,665 --> 03:00:03,043
I could see the people were calmer,
1448
03:00:03,669 --> 03:00:07,923
reassured by what they'd heard,
1449
03:00:08,632 --> 03:00:11,760
and they began to undress.
1450
03:00:13,637 --> 03:00:16,098
Even if they still had their doubts,
1451
03:00:16,932 --> 03:00:19,935
if you want to live, you must hope.
1452
03:00:25,566 --> 03:00:29,153
Their clothing remained
in the courtyard,
1453
03:00:29,987 --> 03:00:32,656
scattered everywhere.
1454
03:00:33,866 --> 03:00:36,535
Aumeyer was beaming,
1455
03:00:36,619 --> 03:00:40,539
very proud of how he'd handled things.
1456
03:00:40,623 --> 03:00:45,169
He turned to some of the SS men
and told them,
1457
03:00:45,252 --> 03:00:48,422
“You see? That's the way to do it!”
1458
03:00:49,882 --> 03:00:52,009
By this device,
1459
03:00:52,259 --> 03:00:58,307
a great leap fon/vard had been made:
1460
03:00:58,933 --> 03:01:02,311
Now the clothing could be used.
1461
03:01:06,482 --> 03:01:09,777
RAUL H I LBERG, historian
1462
03:11:45,328 --> 03:11:48,456
FRANZ SCHALLING
1463
03:11:53,628 --> 03:11:57,132
First, explain to me...
1464
03:11:57,591 --> 03:12:02,012
how you came to Kulmhof, to Chelmno.
1465
03:12:02,804 --> 03:12:04,890
You were at Lodz, right?
1466
03:12:05,223 --> 03:12:07,058
In Lodz, yes.
1467
03:12:07,142 --> 03:12:08,852
In Litzmannstadt.
1468
03:12:09,477 --> 03:12:13,982
We were on permanent guard duty.
1469
03:12:14,816 --> 03:12:17,444
Protecting military objectives: mills,
1470
03:12:17,944 --> 03:12:21,573
the roads,
when Hitler went to East Prussia.
1471
03:12:22,282 --> 03:12:25,160
It was dreary, and we were told,
1472
03:12:25,493 --> 03:12:30,957
“We're looking for men who want
to break out of this routine.”
1473
03:12:31,041 --> 03:12:33,209
So we volunteered.
1474
03:12:34,836 --> 03:12:37,547
We were issued winter uniforms,
1475
03:12:38,006 --> 03:12:42,427
overcoats, fur hats, fur-lined boots,
1476
03:12:43,303 --> 03:12:47,849
and 2 or 3 days later
we were told, “We're off!”
1477
03:12:48,850 --> 03:12:52,437
We were put aboard 2 or 3 trucks...
I don't know...
1478
03:12:52,520 --> 03:12:56,775
They had benches,
1479
03:12:57,442 --> 03:12:59,277
and we rode and rode.
1480
03:12:59,527 --> 03:13:02,030
Finally we arrived.
1481
03:13:03,865 --> 03:13:07,327
The place was crawling
with SS men and police.
1482
03:13:07,410 --> 03:13:11,206
Our first question was,
“What goes on here?”
1483
03:13:11,706 --> 03:13:14,668
They said, “You'll find out!”
1484
03:13:14,751 --> 03:13:17,921
- You'll find out?
- You'll find out.
1485
03:13:20,048 --> 03:13:23,385
- You weren't in the SS, you were...
- Police.
1486
03:13:23,468 --> 03:13:27,138
- Which police ?
- Security guards.
1487
03:13:27,931 --> 03:13:32,185
We were ordered
to report to the Deutsche Haus,
1488
03:13:32,268 --> 03:13:36,398
the only big stone building
in the village.
1489
03:13:37,524 --> 03:13:39,484
We were taken into it.
1490
03:13:40,527 --> 03:13:42,862
An SS man immediately told us,
1491
03:13:42,946 --> 03:13:46,032
“This is a top secret mission!”
1492
03:13:46,241 --> 03:13:48,827
- Secret?
- “A top secret mission.”
1493
03:13:48,910 --> 03:13:50,495
“Sign this!”
1494
03:13:50,578 --> 03:13:52,580
We each had to sign.
1495
03:13:52,664 --> 03:13:56,459
There was a form ready for each of us.
1496
03:13:59,421 --> 03:14:01,715
What did it say?
1497
03:14:01,798 --> 03:14:05,010
It was a pledge of secrecy.
1498
03:14:05,093 --> 03:14:07,846
We never even got to read it through.
1499
03:14:07,929 --> 03:14:10,223
You had to take an oath?
1500
03:14:10,306 --> 03:14:13,268
No, just sign,
1501
03:14:13,935 --> 03:14:17,022
promising to shut up
about whatever we'd see.
1502
03:14:17,105 --> 03:14:19,733
- Shut up?
- Not say a word.
1503
03:14:20,400 --> 03:14:24,529
After we'd signed, we were told,
1504
03:14:25,113 --> 03:14:26,906
“Final solution of the Jewish question.”
1505
03:14:26,990 --> 03:14:30,994
We didn't understand what that meant.
1506
03:14:31,077 --> 03:14:32,871
So someone said...
1507
03:14:32,954 --> 03:14:36,082
He told us what was going
to happen there.
1508
03:14:36,166 --> 03:14:40,003
Someone said, “the final solution
of the Jewish question.”
1509
03:14:40,086 --> 03:14:44,424
You'd be assigned to the “final solution”?
1510
03:14:44,507 --> 03:14:47,302
Yes, but what did that mean?
1511
03:14:47,385 --> 03:14:49,471
We'd never heard that before.
1512
03:14:49,679 --> 03:14:51,723
So it was explained to us.
1513
03:14:51,806 --> 03:14:54,017
Just when was this?
1514
03:14:54,100 --> 03:14:56,644
Let's see... when was it...?
1515
03:14:57,979 --> 03:15:00,982
In the winter of 1941-42.
1516
03:15:07,363 --> 03:15:10,366
Then we were assigned to our stations.
1517
03:15:10,617 --> 03:15:14,245
Our guard post was
at the side of the road.
1518
03:15:14,621 --> 03:15:17,373
A sentry box in front of the castle.
1519
03:15:17,832 --> 03:15:21,503
So you were in the “castle detail”?
1520
03:15:24,339 --> 03:15:26,216
That's right.
1521
03:15:27,383 --> 03:15:31,346
Can you describe what you saw?
1522
03:15:32,806 --> 03:15:35,934
We could see.
We were at the gatehouse.
1523
03:15:36,851 --> 03:15:41,564
When the Jews arrived,
the way they looked:
1524
03:15:41,648 --> 03:15:46,152
half-frozen, starved, dirty,
already half-dead.
1525
03:15:46,236 --> 03:15:49,072
Old people, children.
1526
03:15:50,198 --> 03:15:55,578
Think of it! The long trip here
standing in a truck, packed in!
1527
03:15:57,205 --> 03:16:00,166
Who knows if they knew
what was in store!
1528
03:16:00,917 --> 03:16:03,336
They didn't trust anyone,
that's for sure.
1529
03:16:03,419 --> 03:16:06,631
After months in the ghetto,
you can imagine!
1530
03:16:09,592 --> 03:16:12,345
I heard an SS man shout at them,
1531
03:16:12,554 --> 03:16:15,098
“You're going to be deloused
1532
03:16:15,890 --> 03:16:18,226
and have a bath.
1533
03:16:18,726 --> 03:16:20,728
You're going to work here.”
1534
03:16:21,229 --> 03:16:24,524
The Jews consented.
1535
03:16:24,607 --> 03:16:27,902
They said,
“Yes, that's what we want to do.”
1536
03:16:29,571 --> 03:16:31,990
Was the castle big?
1537
03:16:33,449 --> 03:16:36,411
Pretty big, with huge front steps.
1538
03:16:36,494 --> 03:16:41,332
The SS man stood at the top of the steps.
1539
03:16:42,750 --> 03:16:45,211
Then what happened?
1540
03:16:45,587 --> 03:16:50,341
They were hustled into
2 or 3 big rooms on the first floor.
1541
03:16:50,967 --> 03:16:54,345
They had to undress, give up everything:
1542
03:16:54,429 --> 03:16:57,098
rings, gold, everything.
1543
03:16:59,934 --> 03:17:03,313
How long did the Jews stay there?
1544
03:17:03,771 --> 03:17:06,191
Long enough to undress.
1545
03:17:06,649 --> 03:17:09,068
Then, stark naked,
1546
03:17:09,152 --> 03:17:13,364
they had to run down more steps
1547
03:17:14,449 --> 03:17:16,534
to an underground corridor
1548
03:17:17,619 --> 03:17:21,289
that led back up to the ramp,
where the gas van awaited them.
1549
03:17:23,416 --> 03:17:27,837
Did the Jews enter the van willingly?
1550
03:17:29,464 --> 03:17:31,841
No, they were beaten.
1551
03:17:32,342 --> 03:17:36,387
Blows fell everywhere,
and the Jews understood.
1552
03:17:36,471 --> 03:17:38,014
They screamed.
1553
03:17:38,348 --> 03:17:40,225
It was frightful!
1554
03:17:40,975 --> 03:17:42,727
F rightful!
1555
03:17:44,812 --> 03:17:47,774
I know, because
we went down to the cellar
1556
03:17:47,857 --> 03:17:50,109
when they were all in the van.
1557
03:17:50,193 --> 03:17:56,074
We opened the cells of the work detail,
1558
03:17:56,157 --> 03:17:58,493
the Jewish workers
1559
03:17:58,576 --> 03:18:03,164
who collected the things thrown out
of the 1st-floor window into there.
1560
03:18:05,333 --> 03:18:07,752
Describe the gas vans.
1561
03:18:08,920 --> 03:18:11,089
Like moving vans.
1562
03:18:11,464 --> 03:18:13,383
Very big?
1563
03:18:13,466 --> 03:18:15,885
They stretched, say,
1564
03:18:16,177 --> 03:18:18,763
from here to the window.
1565
03:18:18,846 --> 03:18:20,932
Just big trucks,
1566
03:18:21,015 --> 03:18:24,352
like moving vans, with 2 rear doors.
1567
03:18:27,188 --> 03:18:29,732
What system was used?
1568
03:18:29,816 --> 03:18:33,861
How did they kill them?
1569
03:18:34,195 --> 03:18:37,365
- With exhaust fumes.
- Exhaust fumes?
1570
03:18:37,865 --> 03:18:42,996
It went like this:
A Pole yelled, “Gas!”
1571
03:18:43,079 --> 03:18:48,334
Then the driver got under the van
to hook up the pipe
1572
03:18:49,377 --> 03:18:54,465
that fed the gas into the van.
1573
03:18:54,549 --> 03:18:57,677
- Yes, but how?
- From the motor.
1574
03:18:57,760 --> 03:19:00,138
Yes, but through what?
1575
03:19:00,221 --> 03:19:02,515
A pipe... a tube.
1576
03:19:02,598 --> 03:19:05,435
He fiddled around under the truck.
1577
03:19:05,518 --> 03:19:07,729
I'm not sure how.
1578
03:19:08,813 --> 03:19:11,774
It was just exhaust gas?
1579
03:19:12,775 --> 03:19:14,485
That's all.
1580
03:19:18,239 --> 03:19:20,575
Who were the drivers?
1581
03:19:22,243 --> 03:19:23,953
SS men.
1582
03:19:24,037 --> 03:19:27,206
All those men were SS.
1583
03:19:27,290 --> 03:19:30,376
Were there many of these drivers?
1584
03:19:30,585 --> 03:19:32,128
I don't know.
1585
03:19:32,211 --> 03:19:34,839
Were there 2, 3, 5, 10?
1586
03:19:35,298 --> 03:19:38,760
Not that many.
2 or 3, that's all.
1587
03:19:38,843 --> 03:19:41,262
I think there were 2 vans,
1588
03:19:41,888 --> 03:19:45,475
one big, one smaller.
1589
03:19:47,268 --> 03:19:51,939
Did the driver sit
in the cabin of the van?
1590
03:19:52,440 --> 03:19:54,359
- Mrs. Uwe?
- No.
1591
03:19:55,443 --> 03:19:59,947
He climbed into the cabin
after the doors were closed
1592
03:20:00,615 --> 03:20:02,909
and started the motor.
1593
03:20:03,534 --> 03:20:07,622
Did he race the motor?
1594
03:20:09,082 --> 03:20:11,793
I don't know.
1595
03:20:12,668 --> 03:20:17,340
Could you hear the sound of the motor?
1596
03:20:18,299 --> 03:20:22,387
Yes, from the gate
we could hear it turn over.
1597
03:20:22,470 --> 03:20:26,516
Was it a loud noise?
1598
03:20:26,599 --> 03:20:30,645
The noise of a truck engine.
1599
03:20:34,023 --> 03:20:38,194
The van was stationary
while the motor ran?
1600
03:20:39,362 --> 03:20:41,322
That's right.
1601
03:20:42,865 --> 03:20:45,660
Then it started moving.
1602
03:20:46,119 --> 03:20:50,248
We opened the gate,
and it headed for the woods.
1603
03:20:50,790 --> 03:20:53,376
Were the people already dead?
1604
03:20:53,459 --> 03:20:55,253
I don't know.
1605
03:20:55,545 --> 03:20:58,131
It was quiet. No more screams.
1606
03:20:58,423 --> 03:20:59,424
No screams.
1607
03:20:59,507 --> 03:21:02,677
You couldn't hear anything
as they drove by.
1608
03:21:16,399 --> 03:21:20,570
He recalls: It was 1941,
2 days before the new year.
1609
03:21:24,365 --> 03:21:26,951
They were routed out at night,
1610
03:21:30,163 --> 03:21:33,541
and in the morning they reached Chelmno.
1611
03:21:39,839 --> 03:21:42,049
There was a castle there.
1612
03:21:50,683 --> 03:21:53,060
When he entered the castle courtyard,
1613
03:21:55,021 --> 03:21:57,607
he knew something awful was going on.
1614
03:21:59,233 --> 03:22:01,319
He already understood.
1615
03:22:01,694 --> 03:22:03,738
THE SITE OF THE CASTLE
1616
03:22:08,075 --> 03:22:11,412
They saw clothes and shoes
1617
03:22:13,581 --> 03:22:15,750
scattered in the courtyard.
1618
03:22:20,254 --> 03:22:23,341
Yet they were alone there.
1619
03:22:23,758 --> 03:22:26,135
He knew his parents
had been through there,
1620
03:22:27,470 --> 03:22:30,681
and there wasn't a Jew left.
1621
03:22:36,270 --> 03:22:38,981
They were taken down into a cellar.
1622
03:22:43,611 --> 03:22:48,157
On a wall was written,
“No one leaves here alive.”
1623
03:22:49,283 --> 03:22:51,327
Graffiti in Yiddish.
1624
03:22:52,787 --> 03:22:55,122
There were lots of names.
1625
03:22:56,624 --> 03:23:00,378
He thinks it was the Jews
from villages around Chelmno
1626
03:23:00,461 --> 03:23:04,131
who had come before him,
who had written their names.
1627
03:23:13,933 --> 03:23:16,143
A few days after New Year's,
1628
03:23:18,813 --> 03:23:22,149
the y heard people arrive
in a truck one morning.
1629
03:23:23,651 --> 03:23:26,153
The people were taken
out of the truck
1630
03:23:28,322 --> 03:23:32,618
and up to the first floor of the castle.
1631
03:23:33,494 --> 03:23:37,665
The Germans lied,
saying they were to be deloused.
1632
03:23:43,713 --> 03:23:46,924
They were chased down the other side,
1633
03:23:48,843 --> 03:23:50,761
where a van was waiting.
1634
03:23:57,059 --> 03:24:02,231
The Germans pushed
and beat them with their weapons
1635
03:24:02,523 --> 03:24:05,234
to hustle them into the trucks faster.
1636
03:24:23,002 --> 03:24:26,797
He heard people praying, “Shma Israel, ”
1637
03:24:29,967 --> 03:24:32,887
and he heard
the van's rear doors being shut.
1638
03:24:37,892 --> 03:24:40,061
Their screams were heard,
1639
03:24:40,269 --> 03:24:43,397
becoming fainter and fainter,
1640
03:24:46,150 --> 03:24:50,112
and when there was total silence,
1641
03:24:50,363 --> 03:24:52,448
the van left.
1642
03:25:06,045 --> 03:25:11,092
He and the 4 others
were brought out of the cellar.
1643
03:25:11,175 --> 03:25:13,260
They went upstairs
1644
03:25:22,436 --> 03:25:26,190
and gathered up
the clothes remaining
1645
03:25:26,482 --> 03:25:28,984
outside the supposed baths.
1646
03:25:38,452 --> 03:25:40,955
Did he understand then how they'd died?
1647
03:25:41,414 --> 03:25:43,624
MICHAEL PODCHLEBNIK,
1648
03:25:43,916 --> 03:25:48,879
the survivor of the 1st period
of extermination at Chelmno
1649
03:25:49,171 --> 03:25:51,465
(the castle period)
1650
03:25:58,139 --> 03:26:03,060
Yes, first because
there had been rumors of it.
1651
03:26:03,144 --> 03:26:06,313
And when he went out,
he saw the sealed vans,
1652
03:26:07,481 --> 03:26:08,774
so he knew.
1653
03:26:08,858 --> 03:26:14,655
He understood that people
were gassed in the vans?
1654
03:26:28,961 --> 03:26:31,922
Yes, because he'd heard the screams
1655
03:26:32,006 --> 03:26:35,009
and heard how they weakened,
1656
03:26:36,010 --> 03:26:40,431
and later the vans
were taken into the woods.
1657
03:26:40,723 --> 03:26:42,767
What were the vans like?
1658
03:27:10,920 --> 03:27:15,925
Like the ones
that deliver cigarettes here.
1659
03:27:16,425 --> 03:27:20,054
They were enclosed,
with double-leaf rear doors.
1660
03:27:20,137 --> 03:27:21,972
What color?
1661
03:27:27,853 --> 03:27:31,899
The color the Germans used,
green, ordinary.
1662
03:27:34,819 --> 03:27:36,403
MARTHA MICHELSOHN
1663
03:27:36,612 --> 03:27:42,618
How many German families
were there in Kulmhof (Chelmno)?
1664
03:27:42,701 --> 03:27:45,913
10 or 11, I'd say.
1665
03:27:47,998 --> 03:27:52,503
Germans from Volhynia
and 2 families from the Reich,
1666
03:27:52,586 --> 03:27:55,089
the Bauers and us.
1667
03:27:55,965 --> 03:27:58,259
- And you?
- Us, the Michelsohns.
1668
03:27:59,218 --> 03:28:03,264
How did you wind up in Kulmhof?
1669
03:28:06,559 --> 03:28:08,352
I was born in Laage,
1670
03:28:08,435 --> 03:28:12,189
and I was sent to Kulmhof.
1671
03:28:12,606 --> 03:28:18,028
They were looking for volunteer settlers,
1672
03:28:18,445 --> 03:28:20,239
and I signed up.
1673
03:28:20,322 --> 03:28:22,491
That's how I got there.
1674
03:28:22,741 --> 03:28:25,286
First 'm Wafihbrucken (Ken),
1675
03:28:25,619 --> 03:28:29,540
then Chelmno... Kulmhof.
1676
03:28:29,832 --> 03:28:32,042
Directly from Laage?
1677
03:28:32,126 --> 03:28:38,716
No, I left from Munster.
1678
03:28:38,799 --> 03:28:42,595
Did you opt to go to Kulmhof?
1679
03:28:42,678 --> 03:28:45,556
No, I asked for Wartheland.
1680
03:28:45,639 --> 03:28:46,974
Why?
1681
03:28:50,019 --> 03:28:52,313
A pioneering spirit.
1682
03:28:53,731 --> 03:28:57,735
- You were young!
- Oh, yes, I was young.
1683
03:28:57,818 --> 03:29:01,322
- You wanted to be useful?
- Yes.
1684
03:29:02,615 --> 03:29:08,162
What was your first impression
of Wartheland?
1685
03:29:08,829 --> 03:29:12,207
It was primitive. Super-primitive.
1686
03:29:12,291 --> 03:29:13,918
Meaning...?
1687
03:29:14,001 --> 03:29:15,920
Even worse,
1688
03:29:16,545 --> 03:29:18,464
worse than primitive.
1689
03:29:18,547 --> 03:29:21,842
Difficult to understand, right?
1690
03:29:24,386 --> 03:29:25,596
But why. . .?
1691
03:29:25,679 --> 03:29:30,851
The sanitary facilities were disastrous.
1692
03:29:31,143 --> 03:29:35,481
The only toilet was
in WarthbrUcken, in the town.
1693
03:29:35,564 --> 03:29:37,232
You had to go there.
1694
03:29:37,316 --> 03:29:41,779
The rest was a disaster.
1695
03:29:43,364 --> 03:29:47,409
- Why a disaster?
- There were no toilets at all!
1696
03:29:51,205 --> 03:29:54,208
There were privies.
1697
03:29:55,042 --> 03:29:57,419
I can't tell you
1698
03:29:58,045 --> 03:30:01,090
how primitive it was.
1699
03:30:03,008 --> 03:30:04,134
Astonishing!
1700
03:30:04,218 --> 03:30:09,139
Why did you choose
such a primitive place?
1701
03:30:09,223 --> 03:30:12,810
I was young, you know.
1702
03:30:12,893 --> 03:30:15,729
You can't imagine such places exist.
1703
03:30:15,813 --> 03:30:18,816
You don't believe it.
But that's how it was.
1704
03:30:23,737 --> 03:30:25,906
This was the whole village.
1705
03:30:26,740 --> 03:30:29,118
A very small village,
1706
03:30:31,537 --> 03:30:33,372
straggling along the road.
1707
03:30:33,455 --> 03:30:36,750
Just a few houses.
1708
03:30:38,293 --> 03:30:42,339
There was the church, the castle,
1709
03:30:42,423 --> 03:30:44,758
a store, too,
1710
03:30:45,092 --> 03:30:48,429
the administrative building
and the school.
1711
03:30:49,638 --> 03:30:52,391
The castle was next to the church,
1712
03:30:52,474 --> 03:30:55,936
with a high board fence around both.
1713
03:31:00,607 --> 03:31:04,611
How far was your house from the church?
1714
03:31:05,320 --> 03:31:09,116
It was just opposite... 150 feet.
1715
03:31:10,117 --> 03:31:13,704
Mrs. Michelsohn
was the Nazi teacher's wife
1716
03:31:16,290 --> 03:31:18,667
Did you see the gas vans?
1717
03:31:18,751 --> 03:31:19,877
No...
1718
03:31:20,377 --> 03:31:23,756
Yes, from the outside.
They shuttled back and forth.
1719
03:31:23,839 --> 03:31:28,135
I never looked inside...
I didn't see Jews in them.
1720
03:31:29,803 --> 03:31:31,930
I only saw things from outside,
1721
03:31:32,014 --> 03:31:35,476
the Jews' arrival, their disposition,
1722
03:31:36,018 --> 03:31:39,146
how they were loaded aboard.
1723
03:31:42,649 --> 03:31:44,610
Since World War I,
1724
03:31:44,693 --> 03:31:48,405
the castle had been in ruins.
1725
03:31:49,782 --> 03:31:52,993
Only part of it could still be used.
1726
03:31:53,994 --> 03:31:59,041
That's where the Jews were taken.
1727
03:32:05,172 --> 03:32:09,218
This ruined castle was used...
1728
03:32:09,301 --> 03:32:13,305
For housing and delousing
the Poles, and so on.
1729
03:32:13,388 --> 03:32:15,516
- The Jews!
- Yes, the Jews.
1730
03:32:16,600 --> 03:32:21,480
Why do you call them “Poles”
and not “Jews”?
1731
03:32:21,563 --> 03:32:24,191
Sometimes, I get them mixed up.
1732
03:32:25,025 --> 03:32:27,528
There's a difference
between Poles and Jews?
1733
03:32:27,611 --> 03:32:29,947
Oh, yes!
1734
03:32:30,030 --> 03:32:32,199
What difference?
1735
03:32:36,036 --> 03:32:39,248
The Poles weren't exterminated,
1736
03:32:39,706 --> 03:32:41,792
and the Jews were.
1737
03:32:41,875 --> 03:32:45,712
That's the difference.
An external difference, right?
1738
03:32:46,380 --> 03:32:48,298
And the inner difference?
1739
03:32:48,382 --> 03:32:50,634
I can't assess that.
1740
03:32:50,717 --> 03:32:56,682
I don't know enough
about psychology and anthropology.
1741
03:32:57,850 --> 03:33:00,936
The difference between
the Poles and the Jews?
1742
03:33:01,019 --> 03:33:03,897
Anyway, they couldn't stand each other.
1743
03:33:06,441 --> 03:33:08,777
On January 19, 1942,
1744
03:33:08,861 --> 03:33:11,989
the rabbi of Grabow, Jacob Schulmann,
1745
03:33:12,072 --> 03:33:15,909
wrote the following letter
to his friends in Lodz:
1746
03:33:17,035 --> 03:33:18,495
“My very dear friends,
1747
03:33:18,579 --> 03:33:23,500
I didn't write sooner:
I wasn't sure of what I'd heard.
1748
03:33:23,750 --> 03:33:27,796
Alas, to our great grief,
we now know all.
1749
03:33:28,422 --> 03:33:32,593
I've spoken to an eyewitness
who managed to escape.
1750
03:33:32,926 --> 03:33:34,761
He told me everything.
1751
03:33:34,845 --> 03:33:39,057
They're exterminated
in Chelmno, near Dombie,
1752
03:33:39,266 --> 03:33:42,269
and they're all buried
in the nearby Rzeszow forest.
1753
03:33:42,811 --> 03:33:47,608
The Jews are killed in 2 ways:
by shooting or gas.
1754
03:33:47,941 --> 03:33:52,654
It's just happened
to thousands of Lodz Jews.
1755
03:33:53,989 --> 03:33:58,160
Do not think that
this is being written by a madman.
1756
03:33:58,243 --> 03:34:02,039
Alas, it is the tragic, horrible truth.
1757
03:34:02,998 --> 03:34:07,544
Horror, horror.
Man, shed thy clothes,
1758
03:34:07,628 --> 03:34:10,631
cover thy head with ashes,
run in the streets
1759
03:34:10,923 --> 03:34:13,050
and dance in thy madness.
1760
03:34:14,593 --> 03:34:18,013
I am so weary that my pen
can no longer write.
1761
03:34:18,472 --> 03:34:21,975
Creator of the universe, help us!”
1762
03:34:23,018 --> 03:34:27,064
The creator did not help
the Jews of Grabow.
1763
03:34:27,439 --> 03:34:32,069
With their rabbi,
they all died in the gas van at Chelmno
1764
03:34:32,152 --> 03:34:34,071
a few weeks later.
1765
03:34:34,154 --> 03:34:38,200
Chelmno is only 12 miles from Grabow.
1766
03:35:25,539 --> 03:35:27,958
Were there a lot of Jews here in Grabow?
1767
03:35:30,877 --> 03:35:33,046
A lot, quite a few.
1768
03:35:37,217 --> 03:35:38,802
They were sent to Chelmno.
1769
03:35:38,885 --> 03:35:41,930
Has she always lived near the synagogue?
1770
03:35:53,066 --> 03:35:55,902
- Yes.
- The Polish word is “Buzinica,” not synagogue.
1771
03:36:06,455 --> 03:36:09,374
She says it's now
a furniture warehouse
1772
03:36:09,458 --> 03:36:13,920
but they didn't harm it
from a religious point of view.
1773
03:36:14,004 --> 03:36:17,507
It hasn't been... desecrated.
1774
03:36:18,759 --> 03:36:21,261
Does she remember the rabbi
at the synagogue?
1775
03:36:23,972 --> 03:36:28,685
THE SYNAGOGUE IN GRABOW
1776
03:36:30,437 --> 03:36:35,067
She says she's 80 now,
and her memory isn't too good,
1777
03:36:35,150 --> 03:36:37,986
and the Jews have been gone
for 40 years.
1778
03:36:56,838 --> 03:37:00,175
Barbara, tell this couple
they live in a lovely house.
1779
03:37:03,804 --> 03:37:06,807
Do they agree?
Do they think it's a lovely house?
1780
03:37:17,150 --> 03:37:21,405
Tell me about the decoration
of this house, the doors,
1781
03:37:21,488 --> 03:37:23,240
what's it mean?
1782
03:37:30,122 --> 03:37:32,916
People used to do carvings like that.
1783
03:37:33,166 --> 03:37:35,210
Did they decorate it that way?
1784
03:37:38,130 --> 03:37:41,174
- No, it was the Jews again.
- The Jews did it!
1785
03:37:42,300 --> 03:37:44,636
The door's a good century old.
1786
03:37:45,345 --> 03:37:47,222
Did Jews own this house?
1787
03:37:50,517 --> 03:37:52,436
Yes, all these houses.
1788
03:37:52,519 --> 03:37:55,772
All these houses
on the square were Jewish?
1789
03:37:59,693 --> 03:38:05,115
Jews lived in all the ones in front,
on the street.
1790
03:38:06,199 --> 03:38:08,076
Where did the Poles live?
1791
03:38:11,288 --> 03:38:14,040
In the courtyards,
where the privies were.
1792
03:38:17,752 --> 03:38:20,797
There used to be a store here.
1793
03:38:20,881 --> 03:38:22,132
What kind?
1794
03:38:23,550 --> 03:38:25,469
A food store.
1795
03:38:25,552 --> 03:38:27,471
Owned by Jews?
1796
03:38:27,554 --> 03:38:28,597
Yes.
1797
03:38:29,097 --> 03:38:32,142
So the Jews lived in the front,
1798
03:38:32,225 --> 03:38:35,729
and the Poles in the courtyard
with the privies.
1799
03:38:45,238 --> 03:38:47,741
How long have these two lived here?
1800
03:38:54,789 --> 03:38:57,083
15 years.
1801
03:38:57,417 --> 03:38:59,336
Where'd they live before?
1802
03:39:02,130 --> 03:39:04,174
In a courtyard across the square.
1803
03:39:04,257 --> 03:39:06,134
They've gotten rich.
1804
03:39:06,218 --> 03:39:07,844
- Them?
- Yes.
1805
03:39:09,554 --> 03:39:10,680
Yes.
1806
03:39:11,264 --> 03:39:13,600
How did they get rich?
1807
03:39:17,270 --> 03:39:18,855
They worked.
1808
03:39:19,105 --> 03:39:21,024
How old is the gentleman?
1809
03:39:23,109 --> 03:39:24,486
He's 70.
1810
03:39:24,569 --> 03:39:26,655
He looks young and healthy.
1811
03:39:31,618 --> 03:39:34,371
Do they remember the Jews of Grabow?
1812
03:39:36,790 --> 03:39:37,999
Yes.
1813
03:39:38,083 --> 03:39:40,168
And when they were deported, too.
1814
03:39:40,252 --> 03:39:43,171
They recall the deportation
of the Grabow Jews?
1815
03:39:44,839 --> 03:39:46,716
He says he speaks “Jew” well.
1816
03:39:46,800 --> 03:39:48,552
He speaks “Jew”?
1817
03:39:50,971 --> 03:39:53,974
As a kid he played with Jews
so he speaks “Jew.”
1818
03:40:08,363 --> 03:40:12,242
First, they grouped them there,
where that restaurant is,
1819
03:40:12,325 --> 03:40:13,743
or in this square,
1820
03:40:13,827 --> 03:40:15,328
and took their gold.
1821
03:40:31,344 --> 03:40:35,056
An elder among the Jews
collected the gold
1822
03:40:35,140 --> 03:40:37,934
and turned it over to the police.
1823
03:40:38,268 --> 03:40:43,023
That done, the Jews were put
in the Catholic church.
1824
03:40:43,106 --> 03:40:44,774
A lot of gold?
1825
03:40:48,194 --> 03:40:50,739
Yes, the Jews had gold
1826
03:40:54,326 --> 03:40:57,120
and some handsome candelabras.
1827
03:41:07,797 --> 03:41:11,968
Did the Poles know the Jews
would be killed at Chelmno?
1828
03:41:19,267 --> 03:41:20,894
Yes, they knew.
1829
03:41:22,562 --> 03:41:24,397
The Jews knew it, too.
1830
03:41:26,107 --> 03:41:29,110
Did the Jews try to do
something about it,
1831
03:41:29,194 --> 03:41:31,655
to rebel, to escape?
1832
03:41:47,754 --> 03:41:49,756
The young tried to run away.
1833
03:41:52,926 --> 03:41:55,345
But the Germans caught them
1834
03:41:55,428 --> 03:41:59,307
and maybe killed them
even more savagely.
1835
03:42:08,608 --> 03:42:13,363
In e very to wn and village,
2 or 3 streets were closed,
1836
03:42:13,446 --> 03:42:15,115
and the Jews were kept under guard.
1837
03:42:15,198 --> 03:42:17,117
They couldn't leave there.
1838
03:42:23,581 --> 03:42:27,377
Then they were locked
in the Polish church here in Grebe w
1839
03:42:27,460 --> 03:42:29,963
and later taken to Chelmno.
1840
03:42:31,840 --> 03:42:35,510
BACKGROUND, THE SYNAGOGUE
1841
03:43:00,994 --> 03:43:04,706
The Germans threw children
as small as these
1842
03:43:05,039 --> 03:43:07,500
into the trucks by the legs.
1843
03:43:07,709 --> 03:43:09,502
She saw that?
1844
03:43:10,336 --> 03:43:13,089
- Old folks too.
- Threw kids into the trucks.
1845
03:43:14,007 --> 03:43:17,177
The Poles knew the Jews
would be gassed in Chelmno?
1846
03:43:17,761 --> 03:43:19,429
Did this gentleman know?
1847
03:43:29,147 --> 03:43:32,734
Does he recall
the Jews' deportation from Grabow?
1848
03:43:39,199 --> 03:43:41,785
At that time, he worked in the mill.
1849
03:43:41,868 --> 03:43:45,497
- There, opposite?
- Yes, and they saw it all.
1850
03:43:46,206 --> 03:43:49,709
What did he think of it?
Was it a sad sight?
1851
03:43:58,176 --> 03:43:59,677
Yes, it was...
1852
03:44:03,640 --> 03:44:07,977
Yes. How could you see that
without sadness?
1853
03:44:15,401 --> 03:44:17,445
What trades were the Jews in?
1854
03:44:25,245 --> 03:44:27,622
They were tanners, tradesmen,
1855
03:44:30,542 --> 03:44:31,918
tailors.
1856
03:44:39,133 --> 03:44:45,098
They sold things...
eggs, chickens, butter.
1857
03:44:48,434 --> 03:44:50,603
There were a lot of tailors,
1858
03:44:53,481 --> 03:44:55,316
tradesmen, too.
1859
03:44:56,401 --> 03:44:59,112
But most were tanners.
1860
03:45:02,824 --> 03:45:07,912
- They had beards and side locks.
- Yes.
1861
03:45:07,996 --> 03:45:10,248
He says they weren't pretty.
1862
03:45:10,331 --> 03:45:12,292
They weren't pretty?
1863
03:45:14,043 --> 03:45:16,629
- They stank, too.
- They stank?
1864
03:45:17,630 --> 03:45:19,173
Why did they stink?
1865
03:45:21,593 --> 03:45:25,471
Because they were tanners,
and the hides stink.
1866
03:45:29,517 --> 03:45:31,561
The Jewish women were beautiful.
1867
03:45:34,105 --> 03:45:36,649
The Poles liked to make love with them.
1868
03:45:36,941 --> 03:45:40,320
Are Polish women glad
there are no Jewesses left?
1869
03:45:48,828 --> 03:45:49,829
What'd she say?
1870
03:45:49,913 --> 03:45:54,542
That the women
who are her age now
1871
03:45:55,627 --> 03:45:57,795
also liked to make love.
1872
03:45:57,879 --> 03:46:00,882
So the Jewish women were competitors?
1873
03:46:04,510 --> 03:46:08,097
It's crazy how the Poles
liked the little Jewesses!
1874
03:46:08,181 --> 03:46:10,350
Do the Poles miss the little Jewesses?
1875
03:46:14,896 --> 03:46:17,857
Naturally, such beautiful women!
1876
03:46:18,066 --> 03:46:20,443
Why? What made them so beautiful?
1877
03:46:30,828 --> 03:46:33,998
Because they did nothing.
Polish women worked.
1878
03:46:34,082 --> 03:46:38,419
Jewish women only thought
of their beauty and clothes.
1879
03:46:38,711 --> 03:46:40,880
So Jewesses did no work!
1880
03:46:42,256 --> 03:46:44,592
- None at all.
- Why not?
1881
03:46:46,886 --> 03:46:48,471
They were rich.
1882
03:46:51,849 --> 03:46:55,311
The Poles had to serve them and work.
1883
03:46:55,395 --> 03:46:57,605
I heard her use the word “capital.”
1884
03:46:58,773 --> 03:47:01,401
The capital was
in the hands of the Jews.
1885
03:47:01,484 --> 03:47:03,653
Yes... You didn't translate that.
1886
03:47:04,570 --> 03:47:08,908
Ask her again. So the capital
was in the Jews' hands?
1887
03:47:11,953 --> 03:47:13,913
All Poland was in the Jews' hands.
1888
03:47:13,997 --> 03:47:17,417
Are they glad there are
no more Jews here, or sad?
1889
03:47:40,273 --> 03:47:41,774
It doesn't bother them.
1890
03:47:41,858 --> 03:47:46,779
As you know, Jews and Germans
ran all Polish industry before the war.
1891
03:47:46,863 --> 03:47:49,615
Did they like them on the whole?
1892
03:47:57,457 --> 03:48:04,213
Not much.
Above all, they were dishonest.
1893
03:48:06,466 --> 03:48:10,803
Was life in Grabow more fun
when the Jews were here?
1894
03:48:24,901 --> 03:48:27,070
He'd rather not say.
1895
03:48:27,779 --> 03:48:29,989
Why does he call them dishonest?
1896
03:48:40,792 --> 03:48:44,420
They exploited the Poles.
That's what they lived off.
1897
03:48:44,504 --> 03:48:46,506
How did they exploit them?
1898
03:49:01,354 --> 03:49:03,231
By imposing their prices.
1899
03:49:08,152 --> 03:49:10,238
Ask her if she likes her house.
1900
03:49:11,864 --> 03:49:12,865
Yes,
1901
03:49:14,033 --> 03:49:17,078
but her children live
in much better houses.
1902
03:49:17,870 --> 03:49:19,872
In modern houses!
1903
03:49:23,000 --> 03:49:25,461
They've all gone to college.
1904
03:49:25,545 --> 03:49:29,048
Great! That's progress!
1905
03:49:33,386 --> 03:49:38,349
Her children are
the best educated in the village.
1906
03:49:38,432 --> 03:49:41,727
Very good, Madam!
Long live education!
1907
03:49:44,814 --> 03:49:48,568
Isn't this a very old house?
1908
03:49:51,070 --> 03:49:53,030
Yes, Jews lived here before.
1909
03:49:53,114 --> 03:49:56,617
So Jews used to live here.
Did she know them?
1910
03:49:59,412 --> 03:50:00,663
Yes.
1911
03:50:00,746 --> 03:50:02,582
What was their name?
1912
03:50:08,588 --> 03:50:09,589
She doesn't know.
1913
03:50:09,672 --> 03:50:12,008
What was their trade?
1914
03:50:13,217 --> 03:50:16,179
Benkel, their name was.
1915
03:50:17,597 --> 03:50:19,765
And what was their trade?
1916
03:50:27,899 --> 03:50:29,942
They had a butcher shop.
1917
03:50:30,735 --> 03:50:33,154
A butcher shop.
Why is she laughing?
1918
03:50:35,948 --> 03:50:39,410
Because the gentleman said it was...
1919
03:50:40,786 --> 03:50:44,624
a butcher shop where
you could buy cheap meat. Beef!
1920
03:50:46,083 --> 03:50:49,295
What does he think about
them being gassed in trucks?
1921
03:50:58,429 --> 03:51:00,973
He says he doesn't like that at all.
1922
03:51:10,524 --> 03:51:14,612
If they'd gone to Israel
of their own free will,
1923
03:51:14,695 --> 03:51:16,239
he might have been glad.
1924
03:51:16,322 --> 03:51:20,117
But killing them was unpleasant.
1925
03:51:23,329 --> 03:51:25,414
Does he miss the Jews?
1926
03:51:37,301 --> 03:51:40,638
Yes, because there were
some beautiful Jewesses.
1927
03:51:40,721 --> 03:51:42,765
For the young, it was... fine.
1928
03:51:42,848 --> 03:51:47,895
Are they sorry the Jews
are no longer here or pleased?
1929
03:51:56,445 --> 03:52:01,242
How can I tell?
I never went to school.
1930
03:52:01,534 --> 03:52:05,746
I can only think of how I am now.
Now I'm fine.
1931
03:52:06,580 --> 03:52:08,541
Is she better off?
1932
03:52:15,256 --> 03:52:17,842
Before the war, she picked potatoes.
1933
03:52:17,925 --> 03:52:21,679
Now she sells eggs,
and she's much better off.
1934
03:52:21,762 --> 03:52:25,433
Because the Jews are gone
or because of socialism?
1935
03:52:31,230 --> 03:52:35,985
She doesn't care, she's happy
because she's doing well now.
1936
03:52:36,068 --> 03:52:40,072
How did he feel about
losing his classmates?
1937
03:52:48,247 --> 03:52:50,166
It still upsets him.
1938
03:52:51,083 --> 03:52:52,918
Does he miss the Jews?
1939
03:52:54,253 --> 03:52:55,212
Certainly.
1940
03:52:55,296 --> 03:52:57,715
They were good Jews, Madam says.
1941
03:53:00,051 --> 03:53:03,596
GRABOW IN WINTER
1942
03:53:49,433 --> 03:53:52,645
The Jews came in trucks,
1943
03:53:54,772 --> 03:53:58,692
and later there was
a narrow-gauge railway
1944
03:53:58,776 --> 03:54:01,320
that they arrived on.
1945
03:54:02,488 --> 03:54:07,201
They were packed tightly in the trucks,
1946
03:54:07,284 --> 03:54:10,996
or in the cars
of the narrow-gauge railway.
1947
03:54:12,331 --> 03:54:14,625
Lots of women and children.
1948
03:54:14,959 --> 03:54:18,462
Men too, but most of them were old.
1949
03:54:18,671 --> 03:54:23,384
The strongest were put in work details.
1950
03:54:23,843 --> 03:54:28,055
They walked with chains on their legs.
1951
03:54:28,139 --> 03:54:31,225
In the morning, they fetched water,
1952
03:54:31,308 --> 03:54:34,603
looked for food, and so on.
1953
03:54:36,147 --> 03:54:39,275
These weren't killed right away.
1954
03:54:39,358 --> 03:54:41,444
That was done later.
1955
03:54:41,527 --> 03:54:44,530
I don't know what became of them.
1956
03:54:44,738 --> 03:54:47,324
They didn't survive, anyway.
1957
03:54:47,408 --> 03:54:49,702
Two of them did.
1958
03:54:49,785 --> 03:54:51,454
Only two.
1959
03:54:51,787 --> 03:54:53,789
They were in chains?
1960
03:54:54,832 --> 03:54:56,834
- On the legs.
- All of them?
1961
03:54:56,917 --> 03:55:04,133
The workers, yes.
The others were killed at once.
1962
03:55:04,216 --> 03:55:09,472
The Jewish work squad
went through the village in chains.
1963
03:55:09,805 --> 03:55:11,432
Yes.
1964
03:55:13,017 --> 03:55:15,686
Could people speak to them?
1965
03:55:15,769 --> 03:55:20,149
No, that was impossible.
1966
03:55:20,232 --> 03:55:21,609
Why?
1967
03:55:22,651 --> 03:55:24,695
No one dared.
1968
03:55:25,404 --> 03:55:28,032
- What?
- No one dared.
1969
03:55:28,574 --> 03:55:30,284
Understand?
1970
03:55:30,910 --> 03:55:32,995
Yes... No one dared.
1971
03:55:33,078 --> 03:55:35,080
Why, was it dangerous?
1972
03:55:35,164 --> 03:55:42,254
Yes, there were guards.
1973
03:55:45,299 --> 03:55:48,969
Anyway, people wanted
nothing to do with all that.
1974
03:55:49,970 --> 03:55:51,430
Do you see?
1975
03:55:51,514 --> 03:55:55,768
Gets on your nerves,
seeing that every day.
1976
03:56:03,359 --> 03:56:08,155
You can't force a whole village
to watch such distress.
1977
03:56:09,657 --> 03:56:11,992
When the Jews arrived,
1978
03:56:12,076 --> 03:56:16,038
when they were pushed
into the church or the castle...
1979
03:56:16,789 --> 03:56:18,624
And the screams!
1980
03:56:18,707 --> 03:56:22,336
It was frightful!
Depressing.
1981
03:56:22,586 --> 03:56:26,632
Day after day, the same spectacle!
1982
03:56:30,594 --> 03:56:34,807
It was terrible!
A sad spectacle!
1983
03:56:35,683 --> 03:56:39,311
They screamed.
They knew what was happening.
1984
03:56:40,646 --> 03:56:44,733
At first, the Jews thought
they were going to be deloused.
1985
03:56:45,276 --> 03:56:48,946
But they soon understood.
1986
03:56:49,029 --> 03:56:51,824
Their screams grew wilder and wilder.
1987
03:56:53,659 --> 03:56:56,704
Horrifying screams. Screams of terror.
1988
03:56:56,787 --> 03:57:00,583
Because they knew
what was happening to them.
1989
03:57:03,335 --> 03:57:07,506
Do you know how many Jews
were exterminated there?
1990
03:57:09,341 --> 03:57:13,220
Four something,
400,000... 40,000...
1991
03:57:13,304 --> 03:57:14,888
400, 000.
1992
03:57:16,140 --> 03:57:20,019
400,000, yes.
I knew it had a 4 in it.
1993
03:57:21,395 --> 03:57:23,939
Sad, sad, sad!
1994
03:57:26,150 --> 03:57:29,236
When the soldiers march,
1995
03:57:29,320 --> 03:57:32,865
the girls open
their windows and doors...
1996
03:57:41,206 --> 03:57:47,087
Do you remember
a Jewish child, a boy of 13?
1997
03:57:47,338 --> 03:57:50,215
He was in the work squad.
1998
03:57:50,591 --> 03:57:53,719
He sang on the river.
1999
03:57:53,802 --> 03:57:55,888
- On the Narew River?
- Yes.
2000
03:57:56,722 --> 03:57:59,058
- Is he still alive ?
- Yes, he is alive.
2001
03:57:59,642 --> 03:58:04,104
He sang a German song
2002
03:58:04,563 --> 03:58:09,985
that the SS in Chelmno taught him.
2003
03:58:10,069 --> 03:58:13,113
“When the soldiers march,
2004
03:58:13,197 --> 03:58:15,658
the girls open
their windows and doors...”
2005
03:58:30,255 --> 03:58:32,508
SIMON SREBNIK,
2006
03:58:32,800 --> 03:58:36,762
the survivor of the 2nd period
of extermination at Chelmno
2007
03:58:37,096 --> 03:58:39,598
(the church period)
2008
03:59:50,085 --> 03:59:52,379
So it's a holiday in Chelmno!
2009
03:59:55,716 --> 03:59:58,051
What holiday?
What's being celebrated?
2010
04:00:03,098 --> 04:00:06,894
The birth of the Virgin Mary.
It's her birthday.
2011
04:00:09,146 --> 04:00:11,523
It's a huge crowd, isn't it?
2012
04:00:17,863 --> 04:00:21,366
But the weather's bad...
it's raining.
2013
04:00:22,034 --> 04:00:25,245
Ask them if they're glad
to see Srebnik again.
2014
04:00:30,000 --> 04:00:31,627
Very. it's a great pleasure.
2015
04:00:31,710 --> 04:00:33,170
Why?
2016
04:00:37,424 --> 04:00:40,636
They're glad to see him again,
2017
04:00:43,263 --> 04:00:46,308
because they know
all he's lived through.
2018
04:00:46,391 --> 04:00:50,270
Seeing him as he is now,
they're very pleased.
2019
04:00:50,354 --> 04:00:52,064
They're pleased?
2020
04:00:52,856 --> 04:00:55,567
Why does the whole village
remember him?
2021
04:01:11,083 --> 04:01:13,544
They remember him well
2022
04:01:14,753 --> 04:01:18,841
because he walked
with chains on his ankles,
2023
04:01:18,924 --> 04:01:22,719
and he sang on the river.
2024
04:01:22,928 --> 04:01:24,638
He was young,
2025
04:01:25,264 --> 04:01:27,140
he was skinny,
2026
04:01:27,683 --> 04:01:31,270
he looked ready for his coffin.
2027
04:01:31,353 --> 04:01:34,314
Ripe for a coffin!
2028
04:01:34,398 --> 04:01:36,692
Did he seem happy or sad?
2029
04:01:45,784 --> 04:01:47,828
Even the lady,
2030
04:01:57,421 --> 04:02:00,966
when she saw that child,
2031
04:02:01,049 --> 04:02:04,553
she told the German,
“Let that child go!”
2032
04:02:04,636 --> 04:02:06,722
He asked her, “Where to?”
2033
04:02:06,805 --> 04:02:08,432
“To his father and mother.”
2034
04:02:08,515 --> 04:02:12,311
Looking at the sky, he said,
“He'll soon go to them.”
2035
04:02:12,394 --> 04:02:14,313
The German said that?
2036
04:02:15,314 --> 04:02:19,151
They remember when the Jews
were locked in this church?
2037
04:02:23,906 --> 04:02:25,699
Yes, they do.
2038
04:02:30,203 --> 04:02:32,456
They brought them
to the church in trucks.
2039
04:02:32,539 --> 04:02:34,708
At what time of day?
2040
04:02:40,380 --> 04:02:42,174
All day long and into the night.
2041
04:02:42,424 --> 04:02:46,720
What happened?
Can they describe it in detail?
2042
04:03:05,864 --> 04:03:08,784
At first, the Jews
were taken to the castle.
2043
04:03:08,867 --> 04:03:12,287
Only later were they put
into the church.
2044
04:03:12,371 --> 04:03:14,539
The second phase, right!
2045
04:03:15,415 --> 04:03:18,460
In the morning,
they were taken into the woods.
2046
04:03:18,543 --> 04:03:22,381
How were they taken into the woods?
2047
04:03:28,971 --> 04:03:31,723
In very big armored vans.
2048
04:03:41,692 --> 04:03:44,444
The gas came through the bottom.
2049
04:03:47,531 --> 04:03:50,826
Then they were carried
in gas vans, right?
2050
04:03:54,413 --> 04:03:56,331
Yes, in gas vans.
2051
04:03:57,541 --> 04:03:59,960
Where did the vans pick them up?
2052
04:04:00,961 --> 04:04:02,713
- The Jews?
- Yes.
2053
04:04:06,091 --> 04:04:08,010
Here, at the church door.
2054
04:04:08,093 --> 04:04:10,762
The trucks pulled up where they are now?
2055
04:04:12,139 --> 04:04:14,182
No, they went right to the door.
2056
04:04:14,266 --> 04:04:17,602
The vans came to the church door?
2057
04:04:19,896 --> 04:04:24,317
And they all knew these were death vans?
2058
04:04:30,949 --> 04:04:33,201
Yes, they couldn't help knowing.
2059
04:04:35,162 --> 04:04:37,748
They heard screams at night?
2060
04:04:42,794 --> 04:04:45,005
The Jews moaned, they were hungry.
2061
04:04:47,883 --> 04:04:49,968
They were shut in and starved.
2062
04:04:50,177 --> 04:04:52,137
Did they have any food?
2063
04:04:58,727 --> 04:05:03,148
You couldn't look there.
You couldn't talk to a Jew.
2064
04:05:10,155 --> 04:05:14,534
Even going by on the road,
you couldn't look there.
2065
04:05:14,618 --> 04:05:16,661
Did they look anyway?
2066
04:05:22,501 --> 04:05:25,504
Yes, vans came,
2067
04:05:25,712 --> 04:05:28,757
and the Jews were moved farther off.
2068
04:05:28,840 --> 04:05:30,842
You could see them, but on the sly.
2069
04:05:30,926 --> 04:05:33,303
- In sidelong glances.
- That's right.
2070
04:05:37,349 --> 04:05:40,227
That's right, in sidelong glances.
2071
04:05:41,061 --> 04:05:44,523
What kind of cries and moans
were heard at night?
2072
04:06:01,748 --> 04:06:05,460
They called on Jesus and Mary and God,
2073
04:06:05,544 --> 04:06:08,213
sometimes in German, as she puts it.
2074
04:06:10,590 --> 04:06:13,677
The Jews called on Jesus, Mary and God!
2075
04:06:17,848 --> 04:06:22,477
The presbytery was full of suitcases.
2076
04:06:22,561 --> 04:06:24,563
The Jews' suitcases?
2077
04:06:26,231 --> 04:06:29,276
Yes, and there was gold.
2078
04:06:32,445 --> 04:06:35,657
How does she know there was gold?
2079
04:06:42,664 --> 04:06:45,876
The procession! We'll stop now.
2080
04:09:25,160 --> 04:09:27,287
Were there as many Jews
in the church
2081
04:09:27,370 --> 04:09:29,831
as there were Christians today?
2082
04:09:38,048 --> 04:09:39,341
Almost.
2083
04:09:39,424 --> 04:09:43,136
How many gas vans
were needed to empty it out?
2084
04:09:53,772 --> 04:09:55,273
An average of 50.
2085
04:09:55,357 --> 04:09:57,901
It took 50 vans to empty it!
2086
04:09:58,777 --> 04:10:00,904
In a steady stream?
2087
04:10:04,616 --> 04:10:05,408
Yes.
2088
04:10:05,492 --> 04:10:07,410
The lady said before
2089
04:10:07,494 --> 04:10:11,623
that the Jews' suitcases
were dumped in the house opposite.
2090
04:10:15,043 --> 04:10:17,587
What was in this baggage?
2091
04:10:22,092 --> 04:10:25,553
Pots with false bottoms.
2092
04:10:25,804 --> 04:10:30,266
What was in the false bottoms?
2093
04:10:35,146 --> 04:10:37,774
Valuables... objects of value.
2094
04:10:40,110 --> 04:10:43,947
They also had gold in their clothes.
2095
04:10:48,076 --> 04:10:52,539
When given food, the Jews
sometimes threw them valuables
2096
04:10:52,622 --> 04:10:54,416
or sometimes money.
2097
04:10:55,083 --> 04:10:59,379
They said before
it was forbidden to talk to Jews.
2098
04:11:05,844 --> 04:11:08,054
Absolutely forbidden.
2099
04:11:11,266 --> 04:11:13,726
Ask them if they miss the Jews.
2100
04:11:20,525 --> 04:11:22,235
Of course.
2101
04:11:25,029 --> 04:11:28,867
We wept too, Madam says.
2102
04:11:32,203 --> 04:11:36,207
And Mr. Kantarowski
gave them bread and cucumbers.
2103
04:11:45,383 --> 04:11:49,387
Why do they think
all this happened to the Jews?
2104
04:11:56,811 --> 04:11:59,230
Because they were the richest!
2105
04:12:00,940 --> 04:12:05,820
Many Poles were also exterminated.
2106
04:12:05,904 --> 04:12:07,405
Even priests.
2107
04:12:07,489 --> 04:12:09,365
Mr. Kantarowski...
2108
04:12:15,038 --> 04:12:17,749
will tell us what a friend told him.
2109
04:12:17,832 --> 04:12:20,752
It happened in Myndjewyce, near Warsaw.
2110
04:12:20,835 --> 04:12:22,295
Go on.
2111
04:12:40,438 --> 04:12:44,651
The Jews were gathered in a square.
2112
04:12:44,901 --> 04:12:48,947
The rabbi asked an SS man,
“Can I talk to them?”
2113
04:12:49,405 --> 04:12:51,449
The guard said yes.
2114
04:13:04,963 --> 04:13:09,717
So the rabbi said
that around 2,000 years ago,
2115
04:13:09,801 --> 04:13:14,305
the Jews condemned
the innocent Christ to death.
2116
04:13:25,483 --> 04:13:28,903
And when they did that,
they cried out,
2117
04:13:28,987 --> 04:13:33,283
“Let his blood fall on our heads
and on our sons' heads.”
2118
04:13:47,463 --> 04:13:51,175
Then the rabbi told them,
2119
04:13:51,259 --> 04:13:56,681
“Perhaps the time has come for that,
so let us do nothing.
2120
04:13:57,140 --> 04:14:00,852
Let us go,
let us do as we're asked.”
2121
04:14:00,935 --> 04:14:03,980
He thinks the Jews expiated
the death of Christ?
2122
04:14:10,361 --> 04:14:13,948
He doesn't think so,
or even that Christ sought revenge.
2123
04:14:14,032 --> 04:14:17,535
He didn't say that.
The rabbi said it.
2124
04:14:20,663 --> 04:14:23,541
It was God's will, that's all!
2125
04:14:39,098 --> 04:14:41,476
- What'd she say?
- So Pilate washed his hands
2126
04:14:41,559 --> 04:14:46,648
and said, “Christ is innocent,”
he sent Barabbas.
2127
04:14:46,731 --> 04:14:48,816
But the Jews cried out,
2128
04:14:48,900 --> 04:14:51,903
“Let his blood fall on our heads.”
2129
04:14:54,864 --> 04:14:56,991
That's all. Now you know!
2130
04:16:21,075 --> 04:16:24,579
Was the road between Chelmno,
the village
2131
04:16:24,662 --> 04:16:26,748
and the woods where the pits were,
2132
04:16:26,831 --> 04:16:29,333
was it asphalted as it is now?
2133
04:16:45,433 --> 04:16:50,188
The road was narrower then,
but it was asphalted.
2134
04:16:59,781 --> 04:17:03,534
How many feet
were the pits from the road?
2135
04:17:28,226 --> 04:17:32,396
They were around 1,600 feet,
2136
04:17:32,480 --> 04:17:35,775
maybe 1,900 or 2,200 feet away.
2137
04:17:36,901 --> 04:17:41,405
So even from the road,
you couldn't see them.
2138
04:17:55,253 --> 04:17:57,755
How fast did the vans go?
2139
04:18:01,050 --> 04:18:04,262
PAN FALBORSKI
2140
04:18:04,595 --> 04:18:09,308
At moderate speed, kind of slow.
2141
04:18:27,118 --> 04:18:28,619
It was a calculated speed
2142
04:18:28,703 --> 04:18:34,083
because they had to kill
the people inside on the way.
2143
04:18:34,166 --> 04:18:35,960
When they went too fast,
2144
04:18:36,043 --> 04:18:40,464
the people weren't quite dead
on arrival in the woods.
2145
04:18:40,715 --> 04:18:47,138
By going slower, they had time
to kill the people inside.
2146
04:18:48,180 --> 04:18:52,435
Once a van skidded on a curve.
2147
04:19:05,156 --> 04:19:07,992
Half an hour later, I arrived
2148
04:19:08,075 --> 04:19:11,454
at the hut of a forest warden
named Senajak.
2149
04:19:22,632 --> 04:19:26,594
He told me, “Too bad you were late.
2150
04:19:26,677 --> 04:19:29,263
You could have seen a van that skidded.
2151
04:19:29,347 --> 04:19:32,642
The rear of the van opened,
2152
04:19:33,017 --> 04:19:35,853
and the Jews fell out on the road.
2153
04:19:38,940 --> 04:19:40,858
They were still alive.
2154
04:19:46,822 --> 04:19:52,370
Seeing those Jews crawling,
a Gestapo man
2155
04:19:52,453 --> 04:19:56,999
took out his revolver and shot them.
2156
04:20:09,136 --> 04:20:11,472
He finished them all off.
2157
04:20:13,140 --> 04:20:18,229
Then they brought Jews
who were working in the woods.
2158
04:20:22,191 --> 04:20:25,611
They righted the van
2159
04:20:26,320 --> 04:20:29,573
and put the bodies back inside.”
2160
04:20:39,083 --> 04:20:41,085
This was the road
2161
04:20:42,128 --> 04:20:47,091
the gas vans used.
2162
04:20:48,926 --> 04:20:52,555
There were 80 people in each van.
2163
04:20:57,768 --> 04:21:01,022
When they arrived, the SS said,
2164
04:21:01,105 --> 04:21:03,149
“Open the doors!”
2165
04:21:03,858 --> 04:21:09,155
We opened them.
The bodies tumbled right out.
2166
04:21:10,614 --> 04:21:13,159
An SS man said, “2 men inside!”
2167
04:21:13,534 --> 04:21:19,248
These 2 men worked at the ovens.
They were experienced.
2168
04:21:20,458 --> 04:21:22,877
Another SS man screamed,
2169
04:21:22,960 --> 04:21:28,132
“Hurry up!
The other van's coming!”
2170
04:21:29,008 --> 04:21:34,764
We worked until
the whole shipment was burned.
2171
04:21:39,518 --> 04:21:43,898
That's how it went, all daylong.
So it went.
2172
04:22:13,886 --> 04:22:18,349
I remember
that once they were still alive.
2173
04:22:21,435 --> 04:22:24,230
The ovens were full,
2174
04:22:26,398 --> 04:22:29,735
and the people lay on the ground.
2175
04:22:30,402 --> 04:22:33,364
They were all moving,
2176
04:22:33,447 --> 04:22:36,158
they were coming back to life,
2177
04:22:39,370 --> 04:22:42,748
and when they were thrown
into the ovens,
2178
04:22:42,832 --> 04:22:44,458
they were all conscious. Alive.
2179
04:22:44,542 --> 04:22:48,045
They could feel the fire burn them.
2180
04:23:09,650 --> 04:23:15,030
When we built the ovens,
I wondered what they were for.
2181
04:23:18,409 --> 04:23:20,786
An SS man told me,
2182
04:23:21,078 --> 04:23:25,958
“To make charcoal.
For laundry irons.”
2183
04:23:26,917 --> 04:23:29,420
That's what he told me.
I didn't know.
2184
04:23:32,590 --> 04:23:35,634
When the ovens were completed,
2185
04:23:37,761 --> 04:23:40,890
the logs put in
2186
04:23:40,973 --> 04:23:44,768
and the gasoline poured on and lighted,
2187
04:23:46,604 --> 04:23:49,607
and when the first gas van arrived,
2188
04:23:50,065 --> 04:23:55,112
then we knew why the ovens were built.
2189
04:24:04,872 --> 04:24:08,334
When I saw all that, it didn't affect me.
2190
04:24:09,501 --> 04:24:14,215
Neither did the 2nd or 3rd shipment.
2191
04:24:17,134 --> 04:24:20,304
I was only 13,
2192
04:24:20,638 --> 04:24:24,558
and all I'd ever seen until then
2193
04:24:24,642 --> 04:24:28,145
were dead bodies.
2194
04:24:32,733 --> 04:24:34,902
Maybe I didn't understand.
2195
04:24:35,736 --> 04:24:41,325
Maybe if I'd been older
I'd have understood,
2196
04:24:41,408 --> 04:24:43,327
but the fact is, I didn't.
2197
04:24:43,535 --> 04:24:47,414
I'd never seen anything else.
2198
04:24:48,332 --> 04:24:53,087
In the ghetto, I saw...
in the ghetto in Lodz,
2199
04:24:53,170 --> 04:24:57,675
that as soon as anyone took a step,
he fell dead.
2200
04:24:58,008 --> 04:25:02,012
I thought that was
the way things had to be.
2201
04:25:02,388 --> 04:25:03,931
It was normal.
2202
04:25:04,014 --> 04:25:06,141
I'd walk the streets of Lodz,
2203
04:25:07,351 --> 04:25:11,855
maybe 100 yards,
and there'd be 200 bodies.
2204
04:25:14,858 --> 04:25:16,694
People were hungry.
2205
04:25:16,777 --> 04:25:20,239
They went into the street
and they fell, they fell...
2206
04:25:21,448 --> 04:25:24,368
Sons took their fathers' bread,
2207
04:25:24,451 --> 04:25:27,663
fathers took their sons'.
2208
04:25:27,746 --> 04:25:31,083
Everyone wanted to stay alive.
2209
04:25:33,210 --> 04:25:36,297
So when I came here, to Chelmno,
2210
04:25:36,797 --> 04:25:38,632
I was already...
2211
04:25:39,383 --> 04:25:42,386
I didn't care about anything.
2212
04:25:42,970 --> 04:25:48,434
I thought, if I survive,
2213
04:25:48,517 --> 04:25:50,728
I just want one thing:
2214
04:25:52,271 --> 04:25:54,606
5 loaves of bread to eat.
2215
04:25:54,690 --> 04:25:56,275
That's all.
2216
04:25:56,525 --> 04:25:59,069
That's what I thought.
2217
04:25:59,153 --> 04:26:00,946
But I dreamed, too,
2218
04:26:01,030 --> 04:26:04,450
that if I survived,
I'd be the only one left in the world,
2219
04:26:04,533 --> 04:26:07,202
not another soul. Just me. One.
2220
04:26:13,667 --> 04:26:17,755
Only me left in the world,
if I get out of here.
2221
04:26:34,521 --> 04:26:37,274
THE RUHR
2222
04:26:38,776 --> 04:26:43,989
“Geheime Reichssache, ”
secret Reich business.
2223
04:26:46,033 --> 04:26:49,620
“Berlin, June 5, 1942.
2224
04:26:52,623 --> 04:26:57,753
Changes to be made
to special vehicles now in service
2225
04:26:57,961 --> 04:27:00,297
at Kulmhof (Chelmno)
2226
04:27:00,672 --> 04:27:02,674
and to those now being built.
2227
04:27:08,180 --> 04:27:11,100
Since December 1941,
2228
04:27:11,975 --> 04:27:18,399
97,000 have been processed
(verarbeitet in German)
2229
04:27:19,316 --> 04:27:23,237
by the 3 vehicles in service,
with no major incident.
2230
04:27:25,531 --> 04:27:30,077
In light of observations
made so far, however,
2231
04:27:30,160 --> 04:27:33,455
the following technical changes
are needed:
2232
04:27:34,665 --> 04:27:35,999
First,
2233
04:27:36,875 --> 04:27:42,423
the van's normal load
is usually 9 to 10 per square yard.
2234
04:27:44,842 --> 04:27:48,846
In Saurer vehicles,
which are very spacious,
2235
04:27:50,013 --> 04:27:53,642
maximum use of space is impossible,
2236
04:27:54,351 --> 04:27:57,521
not because of any possible overload,
2237
04:27:58,856 --> 04:28:02,359
but because loading to full capacity
2238
04:28:02,443 --> 04:28:06,113
would affect the vehicle's stability.
2239
04:28:07,781 --> 04:28:11,994
So reduction of the load space
seems necessary.
2240
04:28:14,246 --> 04:28:17,666
It must absolutely
be reduced by a yard,
2241
04:28:17,749 --> 04:28:22,296
instead of trying to solve the problem,
as hitherto,
2242
04:28:22,379 --> 04:28:25,924
by reducing the number
of pieces loaded.
2243
04:28:29,136 --> 04:28:34,600
Besides, this extends the operating time,
2244
04:28:36,268 --> 04:28:40,647
as the empty void must also
be filled with carbon monoxide.
2245
04:28:42,399 --> 04:28:46,820
On the other hand,
if the load space is reduced
2246
04:28:47,446 --> 04:28:50,449
and the vehicle is packed solid,
2247
04:28:51,241 --> 04:28:55,496
the operating time can be
considerably shortened.
2248
04:28:56,955 --> 04:29:00,709
The manufacturers told us
during a discussion,
2249
04:29:01,293 --> 04:29:05,047
that reducing the size
of the van's rear
2250
04:29:05,631 --> 04:29:08,175
would throw it badly off balance.
2251
04:29:09,259 --> 04:29:13,138
The front axle, they claim,
would be overloaded.
2252
04:29:16,308 --> 04:29:21,980
In fact, the balance
is automatically restored
2253
04:29:23,190 --> 04:29:26,276
because the merchandise aboard
2254
04:29:27,444 --> 04:29:31,031
displays, during the operation,
2255
04:29:31,114 --> 04:29:35,452
a natural tendency
to rush to the rear doors,
2256
04:29:36,662 --> 04:29:41,708
and are mainly found lying there
at the end of the operation.
2257
04:29:44,294 --> 04:29:49,258
So the front axle is not overloaded.
2258
04:29:54,388 --> 04:29:55,973
Secondly:
2259
04:29:58,225 --> 04:30:03,897
The lighting must be
better protected than now.
2260
04:30:06,149 --> 04:30:09,444
The lamps must be enclosed
in a steel grid
2261
04:30:09,528 --> 04:30:12,447
to prevent their being damaged.
2262
04:30:14,533 --> 04:30:17,202
Lights could be eliminated,
2263
04:30:17,286 --> 04:30:20,831
since they apparently are never used.
2264
04:30:22,874 --> 04:30:27,129
However, it has been observed
2265
04:30:27,212 --> 04:30:29,756
that when the doors are shut,
2266
04:30:30,757 --> 04:30:36,763
the load always
presses hard against them
2267
04:30:36,847 --> 04:30:39,182
(against the doors)
2268
04:30:39,266 --> 04:30:41,977
as soon as darkness sets in.
2269
04:30:42,894 --> 04:30:46,189
This is because the load
2270
04:30:46,815 --> 04:30:49,860
naturally rushes toward the light
2271
04:30:51,403 --> 04:30:53,363
when darkness sets in,
2272
04:30:54,698 --> 04:30:57,826
which makes
closing the doors difficult.
2273
04:31:00,245 --> 04:31:05,917
Also, because
of the alarming nature of darkness,
2274
04:31:07,252 --> 04:31:13,091
screaming always occurs
when the doors are closed.
2275
04:31:15,385 --> 04:31:18,555
It would therefore be useful
to light the lamp
2276
04:31:19,556 --> 04:31:23,226
before and during
the first moments of the operation.
2277
04:31:26,313 --> 04:31:27,814
Third:
2278
04:31:30,067 --> 04:31:32,861
For easy cleaning of the vehicle,
2279
04:31:33,737 --> 04:31:38,784
there must be a sealed drain
in the middle of the floor.
2280
04:31:40,577 --> 04:31:45,957
The drainage hole's cover,
8 to 12 inches in diameter,
2281
04:31:46,958 --> 04:31:49,544
would be equipped with a slanting trap,
2282
04:31:50,462 --> 04:31:53,548
so that fluid liquids
2283
04:31:57,010 --> 04:32:00,263
can drain off during the operation.
2284
04:32:05,686 --> 04:32:07,562
During cleaning,
2285
04:32:07,771 --> 04:32:12,442
the drain can be used
to evacuate large pieces of din'.
2286
04:32:22,494 --> 04:32:25,622
The aforementioned technical changes
2287
04:32:25,706 --> 04:32:28,291
are to be made
to vehicles in service
2288
04:32:28,375 --> 04:32:32,045
only when they come in for repairs.
2289
04:32:34,631 --> 04:32:38,135
As for the 10 vehicles
ordered from Saurer,
2290
04:32:41,805 --> 04:32:47,728
they must be equipped
with all innovations and changes
2291
04:32:48,812 --> 04:32:52,107
shown by use
and experience to be necessary.
2292
04:32:54,985 --> 04:32:59,614
Submitted for decision
to Gruppenleiter II D,
2293
04:32:59,698 --> 04:33:04,161
SS-Obersturmbannfuhrer Walter Rauff.
2294
04:33:06,079 --> 04:33:08,707
Signed Just.”
2295
04:33:19,050 --> 04:33:22,012
END OF THE FIRST ERA